RYA Issue New Class Rules (Rule C.8 rudders)

29/02/2020 08:58:23
Martin Smith
The RYA have issued new Merlin Rocket rules valid until 31/12/2020
The RYA will issue a briefing note by Wednesday 4th March 2020 to explain the reason for the amendment to rule C.8
 
The current Winder “Fenced” rudder complies with rule C.8 these rudders can be used in any race until 31/12/2020 as can any other rudder that is compliant with this rule.
 
The class membership can vote to accept rule C.8 at the next AGM in July or they can vote not to accept rule C.8.
If the first option is adopted rule C.8 as published on 28/02/2020 will remain beyond 31/12/2020
If  the second option is adopted rule C.8 will revert to the version published on 07/11/2019 at 0001hrs 01/01/2021.

29/02/2020 10:46:51
andy bines
that's great Martin, thanks for the clarification 


29/02/2020 22:25:50
Keith Callaghan
Martin, could you please supply a URL for the text of the new rule(s)? e.g I can't find the rules under the 'rules' tab on the MROA website.

29/02/2020 22:30:19
Matt 3494
The link works for me Keith, but I've copied and pasted. Hopefully that will help.

C.8.2.1 Daggerboards, bilgeboards and multiple rudders are prohibited.
C.8.2.2 The Transom Datum Point is defined as the intersection of the planes of the outer faces of the garboard 
planks at the transom, projected to the hull centreplane.
C.8.2.3 The rudder in any normal sailing position, no foils or similar contrivances shall extend below the transom 
datum point.
C.8.2.4 Foils or similar contrivances with a total wingspan greater than 80mm, and/or any such device that is the 
limiting component in the rotation of the rudder, and/or extend further aft than the trailing edge of the rudder, are 
prohibited.
C.8.2.5 With the rudder in its any normal sailing position, no part of the rudder above the transom datum point shall 
extend more than 400mm aft of the transom.

02/03/2020 21:56:58
Keith_Callaghan
Thanks for that, Matt 3494, but can you supply the actual URL?  Your pasted text had no bold words so presumably no ERS definitions apply?

02/03/2020 22:02:05
Keith_Callaghan
Ah! I have now found the Rules text and can confirm that no bold word appear - so how is 'rudder' defined, for example? Does it include the stock or just the blade?

02/03/2020 22:08:59
Chris Martin
Keith, the ERS definitions apply to the usual defined terms. In this case that includes "Rudder" and "Foil".
 
"Rudder" under ERS definitions includes the stock. 
 
I don't know why they don't appear in bold. This is an error.

03/03/2020 00:29:01
Roger Cole
At the risk of this post putting me in the same category as the proverbial "rattlesnake in the lucky dip" I offer this comment on the " new" rule.  I sail at Portchester and Warsash SC s who sail on Weds. and Fri. evenings throughout the summer. These races often give a situation where we are running with a gentle breeze back up the harbour/river   dodging the tide  so are hugging the bank with c/b tucked up in its case and the rudder angled back at some 60 degrees to skip over the mud in about 2 feet of water. No doubt many river sailors play the same game. Solos , lasers and OK s all doing  likewise while RS400s  thrash backwards and forwards gybing in the channel. Suddenly --realization! trailing edge of rudder  is far more than 400mm. aft of datum point so boat is out of class  despite rudder being in perfectly "normal" position for the conditions. Perhaps scorer will grant a dispensation to rule C82.5!

03/03/2020 08:34:10
Dave
Roger, can't help you with the new rule (bit beyond me). but we do the same on our river. You need to have a chat with the lasers (not sure about the solos') as they are not allowed to sail with their rudders raised, the Laser class rules only allow it for launch and recovery. Our laser fleet used to do it, so i had a chat with them after a race to tell them it was not allowed! our results improved after that!  

PS there's nothing more entertaining than seeing an RS400gybing away..

03/03/2020 08:51:11
Chris Martin
Hi Roger we were fully aware of this as a possible issue, it is not unique to us.
 
OKs are certainly out of class if they do this as their plans specify where the waterline will be on the blade and the rules only specify two permissible blade angles.
The other classes could be said to be out of class also as their rudders are not in the designed position, again specified on the plans or manufactures manual.
 
We were sufficiently sure that this would not be ruled a "normal sailing position" to go with what we had. No, the fact it goes on everywhere doesn't necessarily make it right, but the consequences if someone did actually rule the other way on this one could well be club ending.
 
Rest assured, a LOT of thought went into this and is still going on.  

03/03/2020 09:22:11
Keith_Callaghan
I think I'm with Roger on this. One reason the Merlin Rocket has thrived over more than 70 years is that you can sail it virtually anywhere. I began my MR sailing in the upper reaches of a tidal river and being able to raise the rudder when cheating the evening ebb was a distinct plus. These days our rudders are much deeper, which would make the imposition of 'fixed' rudders even more of a problem. Sail at somewhere like Walton Backwaters, Aldeburgh or (of course) Salcombe and you would be up the creek.

03/03/2020 09:51:40
Roger Cole
Thanks for the clarification ,Chris.  Quite right--I had forgotten that  OK rules insist that lifting rudders are fixed down whilst racing. I will remind  folks of this but suspect that pins will be removed anyway to save transom being removed from boat in the scenario illustrated !  Good job OK rudders are pretty short anyway,  but I don't really get the point of preventing Merlin helms sailing the boat however they please----its not quite a one design class yet.

03/03/2020 20:45:24
Peter Male
Does everyone fully understand all the elements in this rule?  I don't.
 What is wrong in producing a diagram that defines in very simple terms what is permitted (or not permitted). 
I guess 8.2.5 does not stand too much scrutiny - 'normal' is a matter of opinion. However, when you consider the use of 'normal' in 8.2.3 it would seem to mean 'vertical' (or somewhere near!)
[In the RYAdocument 'its' in rule 8.2.5 is struck out]
 

04/03/2020 13:42:44
Matt 3494
Chris, my view on this rule
 
 C.8.2.5 With the rudder in any normal sailing position, no part of the rudder above the transom datum point shall
extend more than 400mm aft of the transom.
 
As you've (maybe not you personally) changed it from its normal sailing position to any normal sailing position i think on this one, as with previous rules, its clear cut. Rudders coming up and going beyond the 400mm are illegal. As up isn't illegal(under the old rules anyway, maybe movement is a better word), and people clearly do it this would seem to be enough evidence to say it is on of the normal positions.
 
A small tweak to the rule would fix it though. if you want to discuss, you know where i am
 
 
 
Matt 

12/03/2020 21:01:13
John Meadowcroft
Hi
In the original post it states that the RYA will issue a briefing note about the new on 4 March.  I also asked on the other thread if a drawing of how the new rule works, could be provided.  I am most interested in locating the transom datum point.  I can’t find either the briefing note or a diagram - can anyone help direct me to them?
thanks
John 

12/03/2020 23:03:43
John Meadowcroft
Hi
In the original post it states that the RYA will issue a briefing note about the new on 4 March.  I also asked on the other thread if a drawing of how the new rule works, could be provided.  I am most interested in locating the transom datum point.  I can’t find either the briefing note or a diagram - can anyone help direct me to them?
thanks
John 

13/03/2020 07:26:51
Matt 3494
Briefing note available after speaking to the RYA and them having to chase the class for permission to publish.

https://www.rya.org.uk/racing/measurement/Pages/national-class-rule-interpretations.aspx

It leaves more questions than answers but that seems to be a common theme of the subject and I doubt we will ever know facts and figures.

Still waiting for a coherent reason the committee asked for a rule change for 40 people. While most boats and people understood the rule. 

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