Lazy Guys (Not perching helms!)

26/08/2019 13:13:05
I've noticed a few of the newer boats now have a system for spinnaker guy management that is being described as a 'lazy guy'. However, unless I'm missing something, there is still only one string (guy/sheet) actually attached to the spinnaker clew, unlike yachts/5O5's, etc, which have a sheet and lazy guy attached to the clew. Is the Merlin lazy guy system, in reality, a powered-up twinning line that allows you to get the pole off the forestay whilst under load? 

26/08/2019 14:40:28
Chris Martin
Yes.

26/08/2019 14:42:47
A
Brief and unambiguous. Thanks, Chris. 

26/08/2019 15:51:31
Ben3767
I don't have lazy guys, so I am willing to be corrected, but the twinner pulls the guy down onto the deck, but a lazy guy is still tensioned in line with the guy, and it has a 4:1 advantage. i.e the twinner has more effect on the angle of the pole in different planes. 

26/08/2019 18:11:14
A
That's what I'd gathered from the pictures I'd seen, sort of a hybrid 'twinner with guts' set-up. The twinner is either on or off but this - we'll call it 'lazy-guy' although it isn't really - gives an element of trim-ability. Ability and practice aside, I'd guess that pre-setting the lazy-guys was a contributing factor in the exceptionally neat gybing at the front of the recent Nationals fleet. 

27/08/2019 11:58:44
Stuart Bates 3615
The lazy guy is similar to a twinning line, in that it is positioned near the shrouds, however a twinning line only acts the same as a reaching hook, thus you still need to adjust the guy with the Spinnaker sheet.

What the lazy guy does is takes the load off the sheet at the point they are connected leaving the sheet loose so that it doesn’t get in the way of the crew/helm when flying.  The crew then can pull the pole back under load whilst sat out and not need to do the awkward cleating manoeuvre from the side deck and having a 3:1 / 4:1 purchase makes it much easier to use.

27/08/2019 17:06:15
A
Can somebody who has this system please post a couple of shots of the purchases/attachments under the foredeck (that's where I assume they are hidden)?
 
Ta 

16/12/2019 11:07:53
Gareth Griffiths NHRC
Has anyone tried the lazy guy system and not used their pole down haul? 505s have been removing downhauls altogether in the US fleet.
 
I was wondering if anyone had now removed their snodger and used the line that pulls the pole out to the Spiro connected to their spin sheet?
 
Do those of you using JTs “Musketeer” system still use a dole downhaul?
 
 

17/12/2019 01:09:40
Mark Elkington
Gareth
 
I have a 'musketeer' pole system but without the pole launching rope being connected to the downhaul (could never get that 1:2 takeup to work).  To set it up I pull the pole right out and then set the pole downhaul with about 1cm slack.  It seems to work fine.  No puller, no snodger.  I should also say that on my boat the helm launches the pole and the crew hoists the spinnaker - helps to keep the maximum amount of lard on the side deck during the launch as both helm and crew can be on the side deck.
 
I have fairly standard lazy guys which are really nice - however, unlike the 505 (which I used to sail) we don't use the lazy guys when the spinnaker is pulled back for a run so in that situation the pole would be able to sky.  When first installed we started to use the lazy guys to square the pole, but advancing years meant that occasionally when I had a senior moment and forgot to uncleat the lazy guy,  the next pole launch was a little less than slick.  Users with better mental faculties might be able to make this work though.  With the trapeze on the 505 you do need to use the lazy guys to square the pole.

17/12/2019 19:45:11
Gareth Griffiths NHRC
Thanks mark
 
interesting to read
 
my thought being reducing the amount of jobs needed to hoist.
 
where do your poles lead back to for the helm ?

18/12/2019 00:02:19
Mark Elkington
Down from the pole eye on the mast to a thru-deck block just forward of the main beam in the foredeck (which has been reinforced at that point).  Back to a Ronstan fixed upright block alongside the mast on the centreboard cap, through a spinlock cleat mounted ~100mm behind the block, then through two blocks with springs to hold them upright (first block 150mm behind the spinlock cleat and the final one on the front face of the thwart ).  The lines are led out to the side deck. 
 
Having two 'hauling' blocks after the spinlock allows the crew to launch the new pole after a gybe using the forward block AND the helm to launch the pole from a seated position when hoisting the kite.
 
Launching by the helm requires one armful to get the pole half way out - usually just before we arrive at the windward mark - then another big armful just as the bulk of the spinnaker pops out of the chute.
 
Has worked well for a big helm, small crew combination. 

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