PY for 2013

11/01/2013 16:15:03
Anyone know the real numbers for 2013? I seem to have different handicaps for the one boat: Burghfield (102), Brightlingsea (994) and Queen Mary (?) all seem to be different...

12/01/2013 11:13:45
102 would be a number based on the cvrda system which starts from the old 3 figures from 1965 era. Not sure what 994 would be ,is it the current modern merlin py (thought that was 1002)? The de May vintage series runs off their own system but are not for interclass racing as they onl;y relate one merlin to another. The graded 'old merlin' pys are advertised on this website somewhere and are what should be shown to your club handicapper for club racing.  deMay pys also on this website. but the bottom line is that it's up to the club handicapper to set pys.
another Chris

12/01/2013 11:17:20
according to the merlin graded pys 2013 should be 1002+60=1062. a handicapper may or may not take originality vs updatedness into account.

12/01/2013 22:45:24
The 2012 Merlin handicap was 102. Clubs are able to vary this for their local conditions so Brightlingsea may have set a lower Handicap and Quenn Mary used the "Great Lake" handicap for the Bloody Mary. At Whitstable we have been using 1000 since the introduction of the modern spinnakers.  However to answer The original question by Chris, I don't think the 2013 numbers have been announced yet.  The new PY table is usually published just before the Dinghy Show. 

14/01/2013 09:58:31
Disgruntled Scorpion
I appreciate that the Merlin Rocket class association are trying to encourge older boats to race, but is it really a Class Association's right to unilaterally invent an adjusted PY?  PY's are calculated by the RYA and may be adjusted by clubs (i.e. the race organiser).  It is not  the privelage of a class to make their older boats more cometitive at the expense of other classes and competitors.

14/01/2013 11:21:06
I think you will find all handicaps are advisory and it is up to the individual clubs or event organaisers to adopt what ever handicaps they like. A number of associations have produced handicap systems for older boats and the Cvdra have one based on the old 1960s 3 figure numbers. If you look at the small print on the RYA system they suggest that individual clubs alter the numbers to suit there conditions or something like that.

14/01/2013 11:30:05
David Henshall
Just a few years back, I ended up working very closely with the Scorpion Class in order to produce a well researched and informed 'mega article' on the 50 years of their Class history.In my conversations with various Association members, there was a great deal of discussion about the issue of how to become more inclusive for the older boats that had been very much 'left behind' by first the Gosling and then the FRP developments in hull technology and shape (some of the variation in hull shape would be classed in the merlins as a 'new' design). This though is not an issue that is unique to the Scorpion Class, 505s and Phantoms are just two well established 'one design' classes that are working actively to address this growing issue whilst in the restricted classes, the line taken by the MR is seen as an enlightened view of a way forward. 

However, once again our libertine attitude towards letting people sign in to the forum but then hide behind either 'anon' or a pseudonym has resulted in an unattested comment like this, that portrays the work done by the class in a bad light. Rather than denigrate the efforts of those who enjoy sailing their older boats,maybe this poster would be better served in working with his own CA to ensure that something is done for the large number of Scorpions that more recent developments have rendered obsolete!


14/01/2013 13:13:02
Your reply ("not available until the Dinghy Exhib") gave me the clue as to why Burghfield is using a different PY than they gave me in 2012: I haven't raced the Merlin there since Easter! which was before the change to 2012 handicaps.

14/01/2013 15:05:13
Mildly Disgruntled Scorpion
Not denigrating anyone.  The point is that CLUBS can alter PYs to suit local conditions, but it not really the aim of the scheme to have class associations (i.e. those with vested interestes) recommending/suggesting/publishing them.  That is fine for intra-Merlin contests, and fine for CVRDA type events.  But less fine when entered in to, say, a club championship, especially if said 'old boat' only contains the thwart of the original.  Should Merlins without 3dl sails be given  PY boost too?

14/01/2013 16:36:09
RE:>>Should Merlins without 3dl sails be given PY boost?
Surely the sails are the same size, same shape, same design as "normal" sails.
They are just made differently and last longer...

14/01/2013 16:38:41
Measurement Man
Well MDS... welcome to the enlightened world of Merlin Rocket sailing!

The role of the Portsmouth Yardstick system published by the RYA is to give a guide to race organisers (club or otherwise) how the Merlin Rocket and other classes perform in relation to each other. The RYA cannot be expected to know how various designs within a class can relate to each other, and nor can clubs, who perhaps only have one or two older examples on which to assess what is fair performance.

The MROA seeks to provide a suggestion to clubs as what variation from the RYA published number may be appropriate, nothing more than that. Clubs who are in doubt about what is the correct handicap should of course apply the full PY system provisions and calculate trial numbers based on actual performance. Question; who then decides what is crew skill factor and what is boat performance? Hugely subjective, and that is what most clubs are very keen to avoid - subjective assessment of a sailor's ability.

What every sailor taking part in handicap racing must always bear in mind is that, while for very many it clubs it is an excellent solution to organising club racing, it is ALWAYS a compromise. The PY numbers published by the RYA are weighted averages based on information provided to them by clubs in the annual return, and these days by uploading weekly results onto the RYA system. The way to get numbers to most accurately reflect your class' performance is to ensure that clubs make returns. Even then the result will only represent an 'average' performance of the class across those clubs that handicap race Scorps or whatever class is under discussion. This is why clubs with fleets of 'Good' merlins amend (quite correctly) the handicap downwards. It is therefore completely justifiable for clubs with older boats to counter balance this.

The panel is meeting to review the returns and set the 2013 PYs in early Feb, so as JAC suggests the new numbers will be published at the Dinghy Show.

Hope this helps.


15/01/2013 12:50:44
Mark Barnes
Well said Graham

18/01/2013 11:19:45
Jim C
There are no numbers for the 2013/14 season yet. 

As mentioned below the process is that number crunching of the club returns takes place in December/January, and the panel of volunteers meets with the RYA folks in early February to discuss the results of the number crunching. The finalised numbers are then released at the time of the Sailboat show. For the vast majority of clubs this is in time for the new summer season, and means that they aren't changing numbers in the middle of winter series.


Your Name
YouTube Clip
Paste the link provided by youtube under the "Share" button, looks like this ""
Type a Number under 33: