JUST WONDERED WHAT THE FORMAT OF THE EVENT MIGHT BE. I am a teenager and have only experience of modern one design racing which is based on multiple races per day, I could not find any indication on your championship page, has this been decided or are you yet to vote or consider this or should I ask the Hayling Island Sailing Club ? thanks JP

Hi JP,

The event will be a 'classic' championship format with one longish race per day.  I have no doubt that there will be folk who post to say 'Aw Ma, 'snot fair! I want 10 races a day....' but for this event they will get a traditional olympic course (or perhaps a reverse olympic, just to hack off the other folk who post...), a line start and 1 discard in a six race series...

Come along it is going to be the most tremendous fun, and if  you haven't done a champs on this format, it is one of life's great experiences, like... your first legal pint of beer in a real pub, rather than the bus shelter, your first good meal in a proper restaurant rather that macD's, or your first..... better stop there...

Entries will be on line at HISc in the New Year - but don't fret I will remind you...

Any queries, or if you want a helm/ crew/ boat feel free to ring me and I will try to help.

ATB

07837 239958

I assume you mean your first drive in a car after passing your test ... and I absolutely agree!

JP, the nationals at HISC will be fantastic. though personally, and as a towards the back of the fleet sailor, I would have welcomed a mix of racing, mostly long races, but with 1 or 2 days of  two shorter races a day.

It a rather tired format; I used to sail an FD and when it was still an Olympic class we were pretty much forced into this format which is great for those who are consistently at the front of the fleet but can be quite demoralising for those further back.  Bringing in a couple of days of shorter races would provide some encouragement and help keep the fleet (and by extension, the class) more together.  With a development boat like the Merlin that's an important considedration IMO.

Don't do it!  Short races means short beats, nothing to be gained (or lost) from making big moves, and worse still no gaps in the starboard tack queue at the windward mark

RS200s solve this at championships by starting to leeward of the leeward mark and have a very long first beat so that it's thinned out a bit by the time the windward mark is reached. This seems to work even with over 100 boats in the fleet.

I know people who have left the fleet in recent years who found the nationals racing pretty dull. People in the top half of the fleet who felt that one big race per day with little place changing post lap one was not what they went on holiday for. I left for other reasons but would return to Salcombe where each race has about 3 starts but probably not the nationals. Other classes do this better. It doesn't have to be 2 races per day every day but a couple of 2 race days with smaller, possibhly trapezoid, courses would appeal to a lot of people. I do hope to revisit the class at some point but under the current format the nationals sailing is not a big draw (nationals social is another story).

Then why do we get such negative feedback when we do run two races a day? Almost noone liked it at Looe and I beleive that where ever it was tried before the feedback was the same. Will Rainey summed it up, we have to try these things every so often to remind ourselves why we don't do it!!

I think to say "Other classes do it better" is a very subjective thing to say, the overwhelming majority of the fleet seem to prefer the one race format and I have to say there was much place changing at Penzance especially at the start of the week!

To each their own but we have no problems currently attracting a large turnout which suggests that the format is OK for now.

I for one think that the Merlin Rocket class is absolutely right in its championship format, sure the odd rabbit gets a thrill with short races, but the starts pay a disproportionate part of a race, the same applies with sticking with the old Olympic courses windward leeward courses are oh so dull, the only reason for either (Short races or windward leeward.) being adopted is the attempt by the Olympic lot to make the sport more televisual which it aint. Long races are good they iron out the good/bad luck and are just right. Lets not just be like everyone else, especially when we are doing it right.

Salcome is perfect with one mid length race a day, 2 starts and a nice holiday with plenty of opportunity to have a morning / afternoon watching and socialising. 

The nationals however does not appeal at one monster race a day. I do agree that at the very top of the fleet the best sailors will rise to the top in this format but for a mid fleet sailor it's pretty challenging and something of a slog compared to even 2 mid length races or even more.

Regarding Looe, I think the major problem was that rather than 2 shorter races on the 2 race days there were just two long races rather than one long race. This coupled with a pretty windy week resulted in a lot of very tired sailors doing very long days on the water and a lot of bad press for 2 races a day. Had the two races been shorter I think the result could have been very different.  I would always prefer 2 x 60-90 mins races over 1 x 120-180 minute one as it gives the everyone a chance to recover, get back into the running if capsised, etc. Am I really the only one who's motivation is sometimes tested 90 minutes into a windy champs race?!

Surely the clue is in the title of the thing "CHAMPIONSHIP" the object is to find the CHAMPIONS that is the best.
Dumming down to the lowest denominator is to lower the very high standard that the Merlin Rocket Class is rightly proud of.

I agree but at what cost.... is the format a factor in the decline in entries over the last few years?

Are you suggsting that over a 12 race series of 60-90 minute races the best sailors would not still win?!

Are you implying that the recent previous winners of the Merlin championships are champions or not. Coming to win one race a day format champs from backgrounds of multi race day fleets and winning with ease, whatever skills they learnt doing more races seems to crossover rather well !

Mike I implying nothing of the kind, perhaps the basis of my thesis is that the standard at the top of the Merlin Rocket Class always has been, and certainly still is, as good as it gets, but it is to devalue a CHAMPIONSHIP to put the holiday aspect first not the sailing.
There are many reasons why across the whole sport the mega fleets are declining except in a very few cases. If the class on reflection wants lots of short races so be it I think it would be sad and wrong but what do I know about the price of fish?

Having performed a simple questionaire prior to the Penzance Champs, the majority of the respondants wanted the long courses. Some said they would not come if there were long courses, with other opinions contrary to this. The results of the survey were published in the Mag so you can all review if you want!

I did propose at the time that the class may want to have a short course championships for those wanting crash & burn style racing but could this be within the calendar?

The long reaches at Penzance were reason enough for me to retain the long courses.

I've just had an idea which I haven't entirely thought through but...assuming (and this is just for the sake of this proposition) that those who want the shorter races are not likley to be in the top 30-ish and that those in the top 30-ish will go with whatever the MROA decide, how about self-declared A & B Fleets. 'A' Fleet grunt it out until the end of the 2hr race and 'B' Fleet finish after, let's say 80mins-ish. All start together; sticky coloured things on sails/hulls to denote which fleet a boat is in. Shouldn't present Race Team with too much of a problem as they will be doing the same course and passsing through the same start/finish on each lap.

We aren't talking 200+ Toppers here, so it might be do-able and it would mean that those who didn't want long races could still be part of things but enjoy, rather than endure, the sailing.  

Battle-bowler donned for 'incoming'!

Going back to Looe, the most testing day was the Weds, if memory serves, as the previous day had been blown out so as well as the scheduled race that day there was one fromthe day before in a lively wind and big waves left over from the gale, then followed by the Champs dinner.  Yes it was tiring, I wasn't complaining, had a great day.  One other advantage of the race a day format is that if you lose a day or two you can still get the full series in.

All the other ideas being floated have been trialled in some form and have not been popular.  For example, having older boats doing just 1 round.  In fact they preferred mucking in with the rest.  I may not have been to the champs since Looe but that isn't because of the format.  More races with time spent sitting around in a swell waiting for the next start then for the wind to settle to reset the line then another start then move the course and fiddle around for 30 mins then another race if there is wind but maybe it isn't enough to run a championship race so we'll wait another 15 mins with our anenometer poked in the air every so often to see if it is improving then it isn't so we'll send the fleet home and try again tomorrow but earlier so we can fit the extra race in.  Because that is the reality in my humble experience, not sending the fleet off immediately on the fixed line next to the beach, that isn't a championship.  Stick to the present format.

I suspect one reason that the feedback that was given at Looe was mainly due to the fact that folk give negative feedback more readily than positive feedback. Although there is no evidence to suggest this for the fleet and Looe, i wonder if there is something in it.

Perhaps some evidence based on how many people provided feedback, and what their feedback was might pin point whether it was those with negative feedback that fed back or if everyone fed back.

I feel some statistical calculations coming on!!!! Anyone got the data?

Yes I think I still have the responses. The data was published in the Mag, so if you are a member, you should have had the answers.

And, no, there was positive and negative feedback.

At Looe, the class experimented with "if you are lapped, you then finish on that lap", which didn't work. At the time, we were at the rear of the fleet and the competition was fantastic and it alwasy seemed a shame to stop early. Whitstable and Penzance dispensed with this approach, for the better I think - ever tried to calculate a handicap result on a triangle / sausage when people don't do the same number of rounds? Ross ad is hands full on that!

At Penzance we instructed the RO to amend the course lengths to have a 2 hour target for the first boats. He was pretty happy that on a number of days he was within a few seconds.

You will never please everyone, so if you want full length Champs courses (whihc is about the only time in the year we get them), then come to the Champs. If you don't then come to the Champs anyway - you might just find that you do like them ....

Interesting discussion, as always, on this topic.

Mr Dalby and I thought long and hard about the Looe options, before settling on what we did.  I'll briefly outline the reasons below:

8 races we thought was a good compromise between 1 race a day and a 'modern' multi race championships whilst retaining a bit of flexibility in case of postponement, and preserving some energy for the social.

Only 1 discard remained to try and keep the racing alive for as long as possible (remember Roger Gilbert?!)

The reason we went for finishing the 'tail enders' 1 lap early was because in previous champs there had been much muttering that a 2 hour race for the leaders is a three hour race for the backmarkers etc.  Also, in case of multiple races this would facilitate turn-around.

In the event, there were a good mixture of durations - one race was only about 50 minutes long which is probably too short for a championship race in my opinion.

Yes, the maths was a nightmare, but we got it done.  Within a couple of years we should all have transponders on for the champs so it really won't be a problem (we tried to get them sorted for Looe).

The racing was live right until the end and I don't remember the socials suffering too badly from the time on the water! Oh, and only 7 races were completed.

Clearly every championships is going to have its own flavour, strengths and weaknesses, with the best maxim being that not everyone can be pleased all of the time.  As a result some people will choose to go because of the programme, some not, and some despite it because it's the champs. It's the same for venues. Regarding the duration of races, I think it is entirely subjective depending on prevailing winds, tide and the venue.  Although some races in Penzance were nip and tuck, the 6 lap epic was faintly tedious and processional by the 5th beat.  And, although no fault of organisation, the longest day I have ever spent on the water was in Penzance.  Regarding the backmarkers, I reckon that the basic standard is much higher, the boats for the main part far better and better maintained, and kit is vastly superior to even 10 years ago, thus making it far more enjoyable and the racing closer.

Whatever the format and venue, there'll be something to complain about if you're of that ilk, but the rest of us will have a great time!

I too have sailed in other classes where there are several races per day and I think that, as a competitor, you have to adjust your mind set to whatever the format is. A bit like running a marathon or several sprints.
I have to admit that I quite like both and this is certainly a good discussion.
There are one or two points that haven't been made yet though:

We have a big difference in speed/ability between the front and the back of the fleet. That is good, we love everyone sailing Merlin's whether they are old, young, club sailors or Olympians - that is what makes it great. But it does mean we need a long gap between the races, which is pretty miserable. What most people seem to dislike most about Championship sailing is the hanging about for line setting, general recalls etc. Several races a day is bound to increase that.

The other problem with having two or more races on some days is that the results are decided too soon in the week. The organisers never want to have more races on the last day - because everyone wants to pack up, get the results/protests etc sorted and, of course, if the weather is crap we could end up with not many races sailed. So if, for example, two races are sailed on Tuesday and conditions suite Jo Blogs he might get two firsts and if he has had reasonable results on the first days he is hard to beat. Whereas Fred Evans might have had gear failure in the first race so with two discards might as well go home. It is always best to keep most peoples hopes alive for as long as possible! For a similar reason the Olympic classes have a 'medal race' at the end that counts double points. So we should have one race a day or multiple races each day.

I have to say I quite like Alistair’s idea though – we did something similar at Hayling last time for the vintage boats. It could bring more people in to find the joys of big course sailing.

We did think about a medal race at Looe, but decided it was too radical.  Maybe something worth considering though?

I quite like the Medal race idea although it would have to include the whole fleet rather than just the top 10 boats. I for on quite like the format that the Champs takes now. For a River sailor it really is quite  different challenge and thats what it should be being the champs.

However, it would be nice if there were more races to keep things a little more open closer to the end. Maybe we should try a single long race on the opening 4 days, two sprint races on the Thursday with an average length medal race on the Friday? That would give the top guys the long races to gain the upper hand initially, the mid fleet a change to snatch some glory at the end and a medal race to keep it open till the last day and something for the back of the fleet to watch if they don't fancy taking part!

That would be a good progresive week of sailing I think.

It is I think worth remembering that short courses windward leeward courses and multiple races per deum were not introduced into sailing for the convenience of YOU the competitor but in a vain attempt to make our sport more tele-visual and spectator friendly. Which quite patently except to a small cognoscenti it is not nor I hope will it ever be.

Not ONLY in the Merlin Rocket Class but for any sailing championship, I favour one race per day on “grown up” courses with as early or late a start and flexible race schedule as it takes to get in a feasible race or in extremis races and thus a very flexible social programme, that should at a CHampionship take second place to the sailing. Whilst about it why not do away with the discard and let all races count. Medal races are a no-no except for the top ten and frankly not very clever anyway. 

Whilst I shall never sail in another Merlin Rocket Championship I suggest the formula that has served the class well (with the odd tinkering.) is the best there is, as are the old Olympic Courses, it is a Championship and the sport should be challenging and take precedence over the social side, there other events for that.

If I remember correctly, the non discardable medal race was introduced to keep medals "alive" till the final day, the non sailors could not grasp why positions were set before the event ended. The perception was to attract TV and interest in olympic sailing, the jury is still sitting on that one, although coverage has got better in the last couple of Games.

I think the ISOs had a double points race at their Nationals years back (I was not there, and swear I have never sailed one nor intend to), owing to wind shift inverting the fleet, the championship was won by someone who would have been 3rd or 4th under normal scoring. The moral being be careful what you wish for.

Two races a day, when the Fireballs introduced this, and increased the number of races, they also went to 2 discards, thus covering competitors against breakages, but it does make the scoring complicated.

Lastly, how do you measure the success of a championship, is it the sailing or the social or the holiday? It is a blend of all 3, none can be ignored and they are all dependant on the others. The winners will still win, and really who cares, the venue plays it's part, the social side must go on (why are the leaders in most classes in the vanguard of the socials, and yet the socials are dismissed as an embarrassing side event?) and the families must come. The Merlins are still a class with a strong following and much outside interest, successful? Probably - so don't blink and change the format.

Please not medal races!

I didn't undertand the rationale for introducing them in the first place.  We have a discard (or two) to counter the chance element (breakage, inconsistent wind, rafting up round the mark).  This doesn't just apply to those that finish in the top ten but also to the rest of us.

Making one race undiscardable means some will go home feeling hard done by if they mess up big time in that race.

Making one race count double points is likely to make it impossible to start as well!  Black flag anyone? - And see previous sentiment.

All I will say it is a Championship,not another regatta, though I accept being largely though not exclusively and amateur class I acknowledge that people take holidays from work to attend, though interestinglt the biggest fleets were when the Championship was held outside traditional SChool Holiday time, further as Barry Dunning has pointed out to me regarding the 1970 Championships (In my heart I know he is right.) checking your gear is part of the preparation for each and every race, The Star Class count all races and so does the Dragon Gold Cup I am sure many others too.

I’ve been at the Dragon gold cup with top boats being craned out and going home mid week once they’ve blown a race.  Something to keep in mind when you get high and mighty about discards on the internet.

> the non sailors could not grasp why positions were set before the event ended.

Always puzzled me why that should be: they seemed to understand OK if the Football league title was decided or teams were relegated before the last match.

I have sailed in a number of fleets -including  fireballs, B14's over the years and different formats suit different boats - skiffs seem suited to multiple short races, But I reaklly enjoyed the 1 race decent length format of my first merlin Nationals this year!
I cannot see how a medal or special race would improve it - the Champagne race is fun for something different.

Dear hmmm I was not there, but I do recall it, it was a hissy fit by a team of three professional boats, they are more careful now! Surely with turns rather than protest or retire an option then its almost optional, and it does hold back the over eager starters too.

Just to point out that the Buttercup trophy does not (by definition) have a discard ;-)

Since I supported Matt Mee's suggestion of increasing the number of races held to decide the Merlin champion over a championship week prior to Looe,I have watched the annual debate with interest.Merlin championship sailing is very challenging in it's current format, but it can be processional.Other classes do sail more shorter races, and to a young team 6 races over a week might seem poor value for money, especially if they haven't gone through a champs race in a Merlin before. However,if a race is going to be a procession then the skill is getting into the one place to be,right Stu? This discussion really is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, but on reflection I think that I support the idea of more races purely because I want to sail my Merlin Rocket more.

In the spirit of stirring the pot, I though I would resurrect this thread both to inspire more comment and to remind all of previous ground covered (pardon the pun). For those who have not already filled in the on-line questionnaire perhaps this will provide ideas and inspiration. We may not be able to satisfy all of the people all of the time but we can have a damn good go at letting them know that at least their voice has been heard and considered. First and foremost in my view; it is a National Championship for champion sailors. Does this exclude consideration of mid-fleet or "classic" boat sailors, families non-sailing partners etc - no. Let Will and Sophie know your thoughts or contact me. Hope to see you ALL at Looe