Topic : Jib halyard systems

When we acquired 2988, the wired jib head was shackled directly to a short piece of wire anchored to the mast. I suppose the idea had been to minimize stretch but with the low tank one can't get any serious tension in the rig anyway, and it means stepping the mast with jib already attached, which can get tricky when it's windy. What is the recommended way to have a proper hoisting system?;- we have nothing to compare to over here. Ideally we'd like a system where we can drop the jib & main easily & safely whilst having a beerbreak. 1620 has a roller, which is handy, but impossible to get the foot of the job down on the foredeck unless the roller mechanism is embedded below deck.

Posted: 04/08/2008 18:08:09
By: Rod & Jo Sceptical
The idea is not so much reducing stretch as reducing compression in the mast, by doing away with a halyard that goes down the mast in tension to a cleat or whatever at the bottom.  This will stiffen the mast below the hounds but is a pain as the mast has to be unstepped to get the jib down, fine if you are always trailing to open meetings.  The standard system is now for a 2:1 halyard where the jib is shackled to a bit of wire that runs to a block.  The halyard runs through this.  One end of the halyard is fixed to the mast just below the jib sheave the other runs through the sheave to a hook on the tensioner, usually a multiblock and tackle, at the bottom of the mast.  This is a compromise, halving the mast compression but still allowing the jib to be dropped as long as the splices in the halyard are small enough to pass through the jib sheave.

Posted: 04/08/2008 19:37:31
By: Andrew M
I think the wire strop was part of a package (Hog stepped Proctor D mast, wide and by todays standards - floppy boat, high bow tank, and very full baggy dacron mainsail). When I sailed over at Up River Yacht Club many years ago I well remember Jim Craven and Martin Allen stepping the mast every weekend on 2455 Hornblower, (Don Hearns boat prior to yours.  I suspect if you revert to an internal jib halyard, the likely result will be a bendier rig (due to the tension the jib halyard will set up as stated above, having said that I think you will find Don generally sailed both boats with lots more weight on board that you do now!  So you might be pleasantly surprised by the result! Remember however to re-read Dans article about making an older boat go - the jib luff tension is not applied via the jib halyard but via a very tight centre main.



Posted: 04/08/2008 21:40:10
By: IanL
The first new Merlin I owned (2310) did not have a jib halyard.  It had your strop and a furler on the tack.  It was a real pain and the first mod I made was to put in a jib halyard. Go to it as suggested.

Posted: 04/08/2008 21:53:40
By: JC
Re. Furlers - Guy Winder creatively set our furler below the foredeck to get the foot of the jib low. Very neat it is too. It had been fun milling about with the jib furled and we are experimenting with this on light airs runs to reduce the disturbance on the kite. See you at the Nationals.

Posted: 04/08/2008 23:26:41
By: Andy Hay - Enchantment 3386
Thanks all. In my original mail I should of course have said 'high tank'. Yes, I know Dan's article almost by heart; my search was not for tension but simply an easier way to handle the jib. We do step every time since the boats are kept at home; it's just that stepping with jib attached and in wind gets harder with every passing birthday; I know I could roll the boat over, but the concrete's hard. Thanks Andrew for the usual precision reply; yes, adding a beneath-the-deck furler to a hoistable jib is the most attractive long term option but would require significant work around the spi chute. Not sure what the mast is, but definitely not D; the track section is very solid extrusion, impossible to trim; the sail is not big & baggy at all, but rather flat with droopy boom which Pat remembered.

Posted: 05/08/2008 13:13:11
By: Rod & Jo Sceptical
If your mast is a round section with attached track it is probably a needlespar, which would be about right for the age.

I used to have a boat (2315) with a hole in the foredeck for a jib furler. I also had a jib furler, still have in fact if anyone wants one. What I spent ages trying to work out and never succeeded was how to attach the jib furler as it clearly needed a pin passed through an eye under the furler. But as the drum was a snug fit in the hole how do you do this with drum in place as you can't get to the pin?

Posted: 05/08/2008 13:37:37
By: Andrew M
No, the mast is an integral track, but as I say a very solid extrusion in that area, so that if the main boltrope is a little worn,- as it is,- one cannot simply use a mallet to close the track entry a little, as one can with a 'D'. Section is smaller than 'D', and slightly flat on the aft face, rather than teardrop shaped; I don't have measurements to hand, being at work,- like you!!

Send we a sketch of your furler.

Posted: 05/08/2008 14:02:44
By: Rod & Jo Sceptical
It's a Proctor Beta Minus, should have highish shrouds and a long thin taper above the hounds.

The furler is an alloy drum about 3 1/2 ins diameter about 2ins tall with ballrace bearings but no maker's name, it came with a box of bits from the final remains of 1174 (?) about 23 years ago. Am at work, if you want exact measurements I will fish it out of the box in the garage this evening. I have a feeling I did eventually acquire a top swivel as well.


Posted: 05/08/2008 14:13:09
By: Andrew M
P.S. if the mast is a Beta Minus then though the top section is soft, the middle of the mast is really stiff and you may well need to look at increasing compression to get it to bend at all, though if your main is flat anyway that's not a problem.

Posted: 05/08/2008 14:16:10
By: Andrew M
You may well be right; I will measure this evening. Yes, mast is fairly stiff in the middle, and letting the mast ram off makes little difference, but the main sets fine as we are, and even with our relatively light weight, we don't have too much trouble in any wind strngth in which we like to sail,- or should I say in which my crew agrees to sail! Incidentally, the main has TWO battens in the top pocket, which seem to work fine. The jib is totally clapped, which is why I am looking at how to better rig it before seeking a replacement.

Posted: 05/08/2008 14:31:28
By: Rod & Jo Sceptical
Does anyone have beta minus dimensions; the e-section is not listed on the Proctor site

Posted: 05/08/2008 16:00:25
By: Rod & Jo Sceptical
Also, Andy, if you have a photo of your furler arrangement that would help?

Posted: 05/08/2008 17:58:07
By: Rod & Jo Sceptical
No photo I'm afraid, I will try to borrow my daughter's digital camera if you are interested.  The drum is in fact smaller than I remembered at 2 1/2 ins diameter and is also 2 1/2 inches between centres on the fittings so would add this to the jib halyard length.  The top swivel I haven't found yet but would add another inch.  The bearings seem to be in good nick.

I have also got a selection of jibs most in reasonable condition, around 2.8m2 but one rather smaller and somewhere a larger one.


Posted: 05/08/2008 22:39:44
By: Andrew M
Yes Andrew, we're interested. The present jib is #1, measures 4.39m along the luff wire, eye to eye. It measures around 1.40m perpendicular from luff wire to clew eye, and is marked 3.07m² on the tack,- got to give the crew something to do,- which fits.

Posted: 06/08/2008 08:20:19
By: Rod & Jo


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