MERLIN ROCKET FORUM

Topic : 1964 Merlin Rocket No1363, Spinnaker pole

Firstly many thanks to those who gave advice regards repairs to said boat, now completed and back on the water.
However, on its second outing we decided to celibrate by trying out the spinnaker for the first time,all went well, and it was witnessed. Then i got to confident, let go the spinnaker halyard and droped the pole overboard which promtly sank. My best estimate is 1 inch dia by 4Ft in length,hook on one end and spike on other,pole was allouy.
Any advice or direction for the correct dimensions would be appreciated.


Posted: 04/10/2007 12:57:28
By: Bob. U
Is the spinnaker a 1964 model too, or newer? If the answer is "it looks small" then it probably is.


Posted: 04/10/2007 13:18:30
By: Mags
Our 1968 model has a 6ft spinnaker pole which works well with old rules kite. 
Linking spring pulls on each end of pole with a pull cord and then threading the uphaul loop between cord and pole prevents loss of pole.


Posted: 04/10/2007 13:29:21
By: Pat2121
I am uncertain but weren't there "new rules kite" then "old rules kite" then "very old rules kite" each progressively smaller the older they were?  I am sure that I have a pole from an old boat (in wood/original carbon!!) which is about 4ft long certainly not 6ft which I hope to use on Gannet.  I haven't found the original measurement but then in Gannet's day the spinnaker should have been flown behind the jib.


Posted: 04/10/2007 13:36:42
By: Garry R
4'6" untill about 1962 then 5' untill, well at least 1970 after which others will know but not me.


Posted: 04/10/2007 13:44:01
By: Ancient Geek
Spinnaker sail does look quiet old, and not very large,although in reasonable condition, so i am begining to think 4/5ft !


Posted: 04/10/2007 14:54:58
By: Bob. U
If you can let me know by email the size (luff and foot) of the spinnaker you have then that would act as a benchmark for the one I have - trying to bring pole and sail together from different boats!!


Posted: 04/10/2007 15:17:01
By: Garry R
Garry - We’ve got three sizes of spinnaker and Chris has a beautiful cotton lawn handkerchief for Iska but Angie's tablecloth as flown by Jonathan(578) at Shearwater is by far the best!! Photo link below - last image.

http://www.cvrda.org/gallery/pages/shearwater07/index.htm

Posted: 04/10/2007 19:39:12
By: Pat2121
Bob nice to here 1363 is still about I owned it some years ago, where do you sail her ?


Posted: 05/10/2007 01:29:54
By: Interested
Weren't the earliest spinnakers designed to be flown inside the forestay? Hence the very short poles
Nick


Posted: 05/10/2007 08:58:17
By: Nick Price
A short History of Spinnakers Merlin Rocket Class 1960-Onwards

When I started racing Merlin Rockets spinnakers were mainly flown inside the forestay, because:
1. The rules said the halyard had to be below the Forestay-Jib Halyard.
2. The pole was a maximum of 4’ 6” in length.
3. Spinnakers were mainly in nylon also used for ladies underwear and parachutes cut diagonally and very full.

A number of things happened almost all at once in no order of happening they were:
1. An increase of Spinnaker Pole length to 5’.
2. The universal adoption of metal masts meant that the hounds, jib halyard and spinnaker halyard were all more or less in the same place and lead to a lot of top masts breaking off.
3. A rule change meaning the halyard could be above the hound as long as led through an eye or block to bring it down in height.
4. The introduction of a more stable “Rip Stop” nylon Cloth (Seahorse Sails and Austin (Clarence- Malmsey) Farrar and also a light Terylene cloth by Graham Leech.
5. This led to flatter cross cut spinnakers.
6. Led by the Oulton Broad Merlin Rocket Class, and Sussex Motor Yacht Club, it was soon found that setting a spinnaker in a blow stabilised the boat, and as boats got wider and more powerful spinnaker reaching became a norm for fleet leaders. With a heavy premium on crews ability.
7. Thanks to work by Tim Hockin, and David Thomas deliberately capsizing through the winter of 1967-8 at Hamble with masts provided by Proctors with holes drilled in them to show that watertight masts made no contribution to boats not turning turtle in a capsize the perceived need for waterproof masts was removed and rather than friction filled thru-mast tubes a sheave box system allowed rapid friction free halyards and in most cases a fast hoist halyard (2-1 in reverse.), though this was short lived when chutes and endless retrieval line became the norm.
8. In 1969 the first Spinnaker Chute on a boat called “Baz” appeared but as she was sailed poorly and was a very odd home design and badly built did not perform at all, thus it was until 1970 when David Robinson and the prolific “Proctor Masts Development School” (Including Greg Gregory.), produced “Ghost Rider” the point was made and the setting of spinnakers and perhaps more importantly stowing and lowering was greatly deskilled (The first 20 boats at the 1970 championships were either new builds or retro-fitted spinnaker chuted boats.)
9. The only other bit of kit was the uphaul/downhaul system for the pole, this was essential the same from 1946-untill the pole launching systems a pair of half cleats on the pole slotting into a combination of elastic and rope the only development or change being that the solid bit went from being the bottom to the top bit as down-force was needed for reaching in stronger winds.
10. It was also discovered at the same time that if the pole was put on “upside down” if it flew vertically up the mast it could still be removed!


Thus the scene was set through various increments in Spinnaker size and pole length and the present “Twin Pole” systems that has almost totally de-skilled the setting and retrieval and is of significant benefit to eye doctors, rope and elastic manufacturers, at the same time reducing the essential elegance of the class with all that stuff dangling about, and increasing the pre race rigging and post race de-rigging times.
However the present generations of Merlin Rocket sailors seem to like it so who am I to say?


Posted: 05/10/2007 14:54:37
By: Ancient Geek
Thanks for all the suggestions and information, looks like i have some experimenting to do as the sugestion the spinnaker should be flown inside the jib due to the short pole seems quite plausable,whatever it will be fun and probably wet finding out.My tangled efforts can be wittnessed in Oxfordshire.


Posted: 09/10/2007 17:39:13
By: Bob. U
Just one more thing Bob a spike on one end, of the pole that you lost overboars, would suggest it was not a Spinnaker Pole but a Jib Stick aka a whisker pole for goosewinging a foresail (Spike goes through clew of jib.)Spinnaker pole needs hooks on both ends.(Symmetrical.) Run the guy (Windward of the two sheets) through the outside hook, the uphaul downhaul should be set to pull the pole foreward and you just pull the guy against it no matter if it does fly a wee bit loose.


Posted: 09/10/2007 18:31:22
By: Ancient Geek
"...Twin Pole” systems that has almost totally de-skilled the setting and retrieval...".  I dare you to say that face to face to the crews union AG.  My only comment is "Bola Bola"


Posted: 09/10/2007 20:22:57
By: JC
The spinnaker was flown inside the fore-triangle when the boats used them only for running (not reaching) I believe?


Posted: 09/10/2007 23:26:51
By: Mags
Yes, the difference was when the pole length increased to 5'(1962) and it was possible to put the haliyard above the forstay/jib haliyard and thus avoid "wrapping" it round and round the afforsaid if it lowered on a different side from the hoist or lots of gybes. Plus the availability of flat cut spinnakers from Seahorse, Musto and Leech.


Posted: 09/10/2007 23:41:04
By: Ancient Geek
If twin poles are allowed for spinnakers does this mean that it would be legal to have a jib stick and a spinnaker pole? I'm just thinking about one of the permanently attached jib sticks as used by the 12's (but maybe it would just be in the way).


Posted: 10/10/2007 09:47:39
By: Dave C
JC, Second to none in my admiration of a succesion of my crews, and others, over the last 50 years,including my present ones, perhaps I should have said "enables crews to focus their skills elsewhere"? In the same way technology helps us in lots of ways to concentrate on other things. However I do think it is unattractive all that stuff dangling about! As i say the present MR sailors seem to like it so..........


Posted: 10/10/2007 10:30:53
By: Ancient Geek
Makes a bloody noise unless you can afford carbon. And even then they still dance merrily.


Posted: 10/10/2007 13:31:44
By: Mags
Laurie use to have a piece shockcord that you could pop the front of the poles behind quickly to stop them flying around. I crewed 3556 a few times and it wasn't a big issue for the crew to do. Haven't seen anyone else do it though.

Also seen velcro used.


Posted: 12/10/2007 12:27:30
By: Captain Ross
I asked a velcro-owner and he said it didnt work, so I glued rubber pads (from a car foot mat) round the ends. They still bounced, but were silent.

Only downside was the black stippled rubber made the pole ends look like something that was bought in a 'private' shop...


Posted: 12/10/2007 17:18:02
By: Mags
Rib takes on a whole new meaning in dinghy sailing .....


Posted: 12/10/2007 17:29:34
By: Garry R
oh mags, private shops and all that. If you need a chat i'm at the end of the phone mate!


Posted: 12/10/2007 19:00:29
By: Richard Battey

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