Oops, just realised that topic was very old and has been archived...here is the original:
Actually there is a third option, buy my son's Merlin (3424, see the 2nd hand list)which has a single pole on a launcher. Ideal for short or weak crews, or heavy crews that you don't want standing up at the mast. Just clip the guy on sit down again and pull the launching rope and the pole goes out! Alan Fuller 02 Jun 03 16:12
Very rare those....at least, I've never seen one!
Has anyone ever combined two of those with the 'snodger' line, to save you the bother of clipping the guy on?!!! Mags 02 Jun 03 16:29
I used to sail a Merlin (2859) many years ago. I then moved up? to a Fireball (13049) built by Brett Dingwall. This had a twin pole system that was launched from lines on either side of the mast gate. As I remember there was a bit of friction from the block assembly on the mast, but that was before the days of the Proctor launcher fitting.
The snodger was probably less effective than those I read about here, but the system allowed a relatively inexperienced crew to launch the spinnaker in heavy winds or big seas when other crews were risking shipping much wet stuff.
If I was to buy a Merlin I would certainly install a self launching twin pole system.
I would be interested if anybody can see disadvantages in this system. Ex Merlin and Fireball sailor 02 Jun 03 21:09
The only problem i can see is the extra yardage of string and elastic Chris 02 Jun 03 21:34
Hurrah! More string...theres nothing I like better. Mags 02 Jun 03 23:37
This last one sounds interesting, any one got a schematic, particularly of the mast fittings? sailmerlin 03 Jun 03 08:21
A quick search of the web turns up a few photos - all on 505s!
See also http://hem.passagen.se/waterat/img-plau.htm
Mags 03 Jun 03 10:06
Dick Batt sells fittings for Squibs, and would be able to give you a Merlin perspective on them.
See also http://www.battsails.com/Accessories/SquibAccessories/SquibSpPoles.html
Mags 03 Jun 03 10:06
Some photos down the bottom of this page:
See also http://www.sailingsource.com/int505/2002technology.htm
Mags 03 Jun 03 10:07
Note 'Most Aussies don't use a Spiro or Proctor fitting', maybe thats because they are £140 each! Alan Fuller 03 Jun 03 11:47
Ah, you wouldnt catch us Merlinites being that cheapskate... Mags 03 Jun 03 12:15
Ok Mags and Alan have had a go on this subject so I'll wade in. Self-launching poles have problems. I suspect the friction in the system means that if you can't clip the pole on by pushing it you won't get it out by pulling a string either. Essentially it is a LOT more string and complexity for not a lot of gain in handling advantage. There is shock-cord in these systems to bring the pole back down again and in the process spear helm or crew if they are in the way. Properly set up twin poles only need a little tweaker released to get the pole on and off. Gybing is OK on the run but pushing out the pole on a windy reach can be very hard. As Alan says, this one is with the helmsman to sail a nice easy mark rounding. If it is windy when sailing with my young daughter we often dropped the kite for the gybes which is much easier to control (also means you can start the 2nd reach going high above everyone else then bear away and hoist). Hoists are very much safer achieved pole first but with knots in the sheets (which you should have if you are using twin poles) you need a lot of kite out of the chute first, pulled right back to the edge of the foredeck, then the pole will go on and as soon as clipped up goes the spinny, making sure both the tweaker and the puller are on before it fills. Drops again spinny down first then pole 2nd, with helm's responsibility pulling in the slack on the sheet as the pole comes off to stop it going under the bow. Look at Jennie King's article in the mag for more details as I am but a rank amateur; I have used a twin-pole system of some sort for many years though and I wouldn't change it. Where does all the string from the pole launcher go when you have the kite up? Round your feet, down the self-bailers and through the jib blocks is my guess.
P.S. This idea isn't patented either and is probably not originally mine. I have a plastic ring on a bit of shockcord tied under the foredeck. The spinny downhaul string goes through this but not the spinny so it automatically pulls it back under the foredeck and away from our feet and the jib blocks after a drop. Andrew M 03 Jun 03 12:56
Something else I have thought of is that you will still need a downhaul on your pole (similar to snodger) to lock it in place - stops it 'skying'.
So the Spiro fitting is definately another layer of complexity on top of the usual.
In an ideal world you could develop some cunning arrangement that would pull up pole, lock off downhaul, and maybe even tension the windward twinning line and barber-haul the jibsheet all at once...but then again, maybe not!
Andrew - I have a elastic ring (oh-er) on my spinny halyard too. Just need to be careful where you tie on the elastic so it doesnt get pulled out of the chute on a hoist. Good idea though. Personally I would like a proper sock to store the spinny inside - I'm sure no other classes let the sail just flop about under the foredeck like the Merlins do! It catches on my mast ram purchase, and is a right mess after a capsize. Mags 03 Jun 03 13:35
Have just removed the spiro single pole launcher from my merlin 3125 to move to twin pole set up. Sprio pole was fine to launch but had a tenacy to spear crew and helm on release - ask Matt Buckle!!!! Also kit was quite heavy. Didn't have any probs with ropes in the boat, all neatly sorted.
Practice will tell if move to twin ploes is the right one for us! Andy Hayes 03 Jun 03 18:43
Having sailed 3125, I can confirm that the spiro pole system was evil, more akin to a sidewinder missile - it seemed to lock onto the crew no matter which way he tried to evade!
Twin poles is definitely the way to go, you just need at least a 2:1, or better still a 4:1, on the downhaul / snodger / whatever. The rest is technique and practice, so come along and take advantage of one of the excellent class training events. Lyme Regis is next on the 20th June, a very friendly club and a superb venue to sail from! Dave Lee 03 Jun 03 21:01
Nasty nasty things those pole launchers. Did the abersoch nationals in '98 with twim self launching poles and as you will all recall it was seriously breezy. I don't think I managed to get the pole right out on any of the reaches. Much better to have twin poles.
Top tips, as I see it are:
1) If crew is hoisting (as is usual on a reach if it is breezy) then pull the kite back to the shroud and then a bit more - you can't have enough out. You do have to be quickish though otherwise it can blow-up inside the jib which is a little bit disastrous....
2) Make sure there is quite a bit of slack in the downhall - this enables you to go past the mast and then back to clip it on - much easier than fighting.
3) maybe the most important...: if you have trip grips/trigger grips etc, which you will have, make sure that they are FORWARD of the block that the elastic runs through, i.e. about 12-18inches from the pole end. This gives so much more control over the pole compared to when they are right at the end.
4) On the gybe if you can keep the kite filling by cleating the guy and sheet and getting the helm to steer it round the gybe via a run, there is very little load in the pole at all. i know it's not always possible to do this, but if it goes on first time it is easy. If you're hardened up onto the reach it is very tricky,
5) Helms - keep the boat flat! (or slightly heeling to leeward). When the boat is heeling on top of you putting the pole on is 10 orders of magnitude more difficult.
6) Be quick and practise!
Hope that helps.... Chris D 09 Jun 03 11:11
See Helms you have to work just as hard as the crew!! if not harder its no good just shouting get that pole on, you have to make it happen.
Ex Member of the crews union that had an understanding helm, and my crews benifit from an easy time.
p.s. its worth having a second d ring lower down the mast for those time it just will not go on the top ring, at least then your saing fast rather than flapping the kite and eventaly having to drop it... chopperd 09 Jun 03 12:30
I had a twin pole launching system on 3335 which was a direct copy of one designed by Dick Batt, with a couple of minor mods, like 2 glass nylon balls butting up against the end of the pole to stop the rope jamming in the tube.
It was brilliant, particularly in big fleets on ponds. Very snappy, safe gybing. I've lost the diagram but I'm sure Dick has the details somewhere in his archives.
Posted: 27/03/2006 09:13:43 By: Mags |
