I have an older Merlin with a square hoop and traveller. The system regularly fails to uncleat itself after a tack, so the traveller stays on the wrong side. Has anybody any hints to make it work better.

Use liquid detergent as a lubricant! It isn't messy like oil and keeps the mud and salt at bay!

Check the angle with the control line going into the cleats,the line should be pulled down to the seat of the cleat. To often its not, usually caused by poor fitting or worn out cleats.  good sailing Barry.

found the best way is to bin the standard string that uncleats the old side when you pull the new side and replace it with 2 bits of string tied to the centrejammer (The harken 205 one has holes that are perfect for this)and the old rings that the old system used, so that when you rotate the centrejammer while tacking it uncleats the old side.

Sounds good any chance of a pic to be totally sure.

I'd be tempted to ditch the hoop and set it up as a thwart mounted system, much easier to get angles right and sometimes easier to sail. Needs a good kicker too to work really well though. Check how secure the thwart is first if you go this route, you may have to leave the lower half of the hoop as support if unsure.

I'll try and take a pic at the weekend

Rope Traveller, infinate settings can be achieved .Set it up in the middle of the boat it works ,and is light.

Boy.

If you get it set up right the square hoop system will work OK but the string to uncleat the old side has to be the right length, maybe yours is a bit long, and the cleats need to be good quality so you can cleat & uncleat without too much pressure on the rope.  Chris's idea sounds neat as long as you can get a clean lead to the right place.  Are the rings or blocks on the uncleating string led to the right place (ie above the cleat not below it)?

I have the system as described by Chris (installed by Mr. Dirty Hands of Coleshill - alias Phil Scott).
It works far better than the 'conventional' system because it will pull the traveller controls out of the cleats while there is no pressure on them.
Chris has got a bigger camera than me - so I'll leave the picture to him.

Ditch the hoop .Use rope 
Canal boy

Thank you for the ideas. I like the Chris.M solution, and will give it a go. However I am also intrugued by Canal Boys rope traveller. Is he taking the piss, or perhaps the purveyor of some ancient wisdom we techno-freak Merlin sailors have forgotten. It has to be admitted thay several kilos of stainless steel in the middle of the boat is not a great idea. A photo would be nice.

Are we talking about the system favoured by Mr Jackson etc or the version used by Laurie Smart?

Laurie's boat (a Make it So design) has always pointed very well.However, when I tried the same system in my boat (also a Make it So design,)I didn't point at all well and reverted back to my curved Harken traveller. The result? I pointed high again. I am not sure if the lack of pointing ability relates to the bridle not being set up correctly or to misuse of the kicker. Has anyone reverted to the bridle from a hoop or traveller and if so, what has been their experience?

Jerry 
I assure you , I am not taking the piss! Think about it , How far do you need the traveller to travel? not far . The main criteria is to get the traveller up to windward and flat if required. This is achieved with 4 bits of string/rope .The same technique used on all spinnaker tweaker lines . Sheet lines are the traveller and the tweakers are the power house to hold down the sheets which attach to the main sheet, This allows more purchase on the mainsheet and infinate accurate settings ,and is lightweight. Believe me it works, try it.

Canal

I used to have a rope bridle, but I always found that it pulled the boom down to the thwart too much (i.e. acting too much like a kicker). I changed back to a curved hoop and I started to point higher and there's a better shape in the mainsail (and the crew finds it more comfortable)

Chris B

Not convinced of Canal Boy's reasoning here. Bringing the traveller up to windward is only usefull in lighter airs- okay it is an advantage sometimes here. In my experience the biggest advantage of a centre traveller is that you cleat the main sheet and when the gusts come in stronger winds you loosen the traveller control line and it automatically acts both to bend and flatten the rig at the same time as it moves to leeward, without needing continual adjustment on the kicker, or mast bend control (if fitted.) This needs a traveller track of at least 2.5 to 3 feet in length, maybe a bit more in some boats. (I used just over 4 feet but hardly ever used it all- only in light winds downwind to shift the sheet pivot closer to the boom.)
Arguments about tacking seem to miss the original concept too. The first idea was to have a looped traveller control line so that you could de-cleat from either side of the boat. I know, I used one of the very first succesful systems in about 1969! Won a lot of prizes with it... long time ago! Ah, modern technology; where would we be without string?

Rope traveller works wonders in the middle of the boat. OOOOOOPPPPP,I DONT FINK SO!

Canal Boy.

rope might not work in the middle. But it does on the transom.

in stronger winds, a situation is proposed whereby you drop the traveller and get more leech tension if you have a track.

would it not be nicer to drop the traveller and get a little more twist in the gust - the top of the carbon mast will be helping by flicking off anyway - so that this power can be converted into a planing dinghy rig.  this would be possible with the described rope arrangement.

who wants to point high?  why not plane faster and end up pointing higher?  Although not insubstantial, the boat is not too heavy with all the righting moment.

no doubt there are many ways to skin a cat

Rope does work in the middle of the boat,and it works really well ,better than a aluminium track , or carbon ,stainless hoops. You pay's yer money ,and take the choice. Choice aaarrrrrrr it's great.
CANAL BOY.

Skin the cat.

Canal Boy

Is that Canal Boy Plumtree?

No Vines, its not. Since you alerted me to this thread I can add that I have a system on Splatter 1631,which is directly copied from the Laser 4000. I find the centre sheet easier for gybing and I can get the bridal just up to windward for the beat. Cheap and light and it works, problem is that if you have a girlie crew with long blong hair it ends up in the mainsheet blocks! Now about Mr.Vines, he has now joined the Merlin fleet, I am opening a book on how long it take him to a)pay his subs b) get insured and certified.

From Australia to Shoreham canal and ye old powerstation,now gone,  to Cowes! I don't no what me parents were finkin. Never forgiven them.

Canal boy.

Appologies to the 'real' canal boy - thought Mr P was comming out of the closet!!

Pay your subscription Vines.....!!

Back in your box Razor Bob Back-Bailer.....

Canel boy Alias Huff?

Have not found any loss in pointing or speed by using a simple centre strop on my Lawrie boat infact you tack quicker smoother without faffing around for a traveller.
Height of the strop is critical though, I went for minimum down and maximum centre on the main if you know what I mean?! and this works for all rake settings, then use the kicker to set you leach.

Trouble with letting the rig twist is what to do with the top batten. If there's any heavy curvature in the rig at the top, all you are doing is increasing drag right at the point where the leverage is greatest. Flatten the whole sail and adjust angle of attack - gives least drag and most control. And you can point it where you like, high or easy. And the day I see a rope traveller taking all that force without some give and loss of rig control will thre day steel is made redundant.

...but the whole point of all these systems, square top hoop, strops, bridles etc, is that the leech is controlled largely by the kicker not the mainsheet, you need a powerful kicker and the lowers at boom height oppose the forward component of the kicker tension to regulate mast bend.  The mainsheet just controls boom angle.  If your bridle is made of Vectran it won't stretch at all, there's less load on this than on the spinny downhaul on a tight reach.

Having said that, I'm keeping my hoop.  I'm clumsy in the boat anyway and it gives you something to hang on to.

& also I'd have to find even more lead if I took the hoop out {:~0}

Which systems?
A proper and full centre track system uses the mainsheet as the main leech tensioner upwind and on a tight reach, even a dead reach, depending on how wide your track is. The angle the boom is let out is controlled by the traveller sheet. It gives far more leverage and control than even a ginormous kicker can.

If you weant it I'll let you have a definitive history of central mainsheeting  that goes further back than you'd think!

We had centre mains on Victory in 1705 and Bellephron before That!

-and just look where you ended up!

I like to state for the record that I am totally misquoted, What I actually said (coughing during the last word!) was:-
  KISS MY AR(cough)SE.  When that fool barber surgeon wanted to cut my other arm off!!!!!

AAAHHHHH !
Nelson those were the days.Roll tacking ,no problem with the top mizzen .

SHOULD THAT NOT BE MIZZEN TOP?

Of COURSE!!

THe whole centre mainsheet thingy goes back to 1958 and Brian Saffery cooper - crewed by ALAN WARREN - Ken Rose briefly tried it but ghuru he was he was simply not talented enogh as a driver even John Oakley tried it on Tony Fox's Crewcut when she went off tune when she put a metal mast in, I think Pat Blake tried it when he had Crewcut subsequently.!it failed then because the then rig was too floppy it was only in 1963 when Paul Nevard had the first of those Whyche and Coppock Boats ALAN WARREN again got one pretty quickly and the rest is history except that a post in the centre was used and showeing little adjustment if any was of any use. Strops were used too based on the pictures Brian Saffery-Cooper broght back from the 1964 Olympics of Lowell Norths Dragon. David Thomas had an interesting varient that was self adjusting. David Child had one on Beat Nick in her last year and the on Flower Child that workerd but put a lot of strain on the rig.Mainlt then flat travellers were used with David Child & John Harris putting two travellers together and a triangular strop between them which led on to the present inelegent systems that do seem to work or sailors like Alan Warren and Pat Blake who are no followers of fashion for the sake of itwould not use them. I'm sure the strop is better though if only because it opens up the working area.
Of course at the same time we had top batten problems on the old triangular sails, and the Bruce Banks, (Ken Rose and Paul Nevard mainly) produced the "Top Sail" Quadrangular sail which was in fact invented by Jeckells copied to extreme by Mike Jackson and made to work by BB sails, then some clown reintroduced the full lkength tiop batten and its back to roll tacks and flipping the batten.Its too early I've got to go racing its a loveley day here!

I have a photo of Crewcut circa '58 or '59 and it appears to be transom main then, and having to spill rather a lot of wind out the top half of the sail.

Another thought for Lord Nelson and co- I was talking to this astrophysicist over the road from me who was fascinated by all the discussions on centre travellers etc, and he told me that his latest PhD thesis on religious archeology, or something, (not certain what as he seemed to have had a few whiskies,) revealed that centre travellers were probably around in biblical times. He suggested that Moses actually unzipped the Red Sea with some such device.
Might seem reasonable after a few whiskies... I suppose.
Mind you, he can't stand water.
(Hence the whisky... maybe. Never met a totally sane astrophysicist, have you?)

Hell I've had one on the sligh for years!
Ho Ho Ho.....