I currently sail flying Fifteens and am looking at buying a second hand merlin rocket. I have been looking on the forum recently looking at posts and i have noticed the bilge keel posts and im worried to purchase a boat and then be out classed. As i don't have money to chop the boat up. What is the likely hood of this happening could anybody shine any light on it???

Removing the bilge keels will not necessarily have any real performance increase, Plastic boats would have more difficulty than a wooden one if you really wanted to go down that route.

It'll be decided at the agm in July. From a personal point of view the sales job so far hasn't convinced me but we'll have to see. 

To be honest I don't think it'll make any difference, in fact it might even be worse!

conservative lot (small c) the Merlins and in recent years there haven't been any radical changes which have outclassed boats overnight (as in some classes). For example the class was quick to ban dagger-boards and more recently t-foils so I don't think there is much to worry about :-)

I really would not worry yourself about it. Even if it does get passed I doubt very many people would have them removed for the difference it would make.

As Chris says, I am not convinced yet and I am sure we will both be voting at the AGM.

I'm just worried i'm not going to be competitive if the rule is changed. It would be a shame for the class to end up like the national 12's and have smooth skinned bottoms. As whats attracted me to the class is its classic design.I'd just like to ask owners if the new rule was to come through would they remove them?

Even if the rule was changed[ which I doubt, having read the tread and also talked to other owners ], I very much dobt if the body of opinion would mean that all 3750 odd boats would remove them to gain anything. Rest easy and buy one, in class, as of present.

Much better buy new sails than worry about the bilge keels

Well I can speak for myself and say that I would not remove mine.

I think I can also say that we will never have smooth bottoms or go anywhere even close to the extent of changes seen in the National 12 Class.

We are a development class and changes will always happen but as members we never lose sight of our heritage and are very careful about out classing older boats. I would bet that if you were to put any of our top helms in an original Canterbury Tales or Let it Ride that was in good order with new sails they would still be close to the front of the fleet. These older boats can be picked up for as little as £2,000 now.

You really don't need to worry. There are going to be no changes that at the very least can't be retro fitted to an older boat further than the existing new design process.

See you on the water soon!!!

Just use it as a bargaining tool to get a hefty reduction in price on a GRP boat, or wait until the AGM which is not long away.
Bear in mind that if this goes through, it sends the message that all the rules are negotiable.
It may also see the class descend into acrimony as those who can't get to the AGM seek to get it overturned and the RYA gets involved.
Any class that requires rubbing strakes, they have them as fair as possible, because anything else is slower, and any class where they are not required, nobody has them.
I'd like to think people won't be voting this in, so probably best to make some low offers on the grp boats for sail quickly?

In answer to your 2nd post Oliver - even if the rule change goes through 3555 will keep hers.
I will be at the AGM and, as per Chris M,I have not yet been persuaded to support the proposal.
We compete at the back end of the Midland Circuit and Silver Tiller fleet and any marginal improvement from keel removal, if it exists, is easily overwhelmed by a couple of poor tacks, a missed windshift or a worn suit of sails. When I'm regularly in the top 10 I might start to worry about this issue!!
If you are aiming to compete at the front of the fleet then the view of some of the top twenty helms may be of more value to you.
Please do not be put off by this current hiatus, come and join us on the water as soon as possible. If nothing else, there's plenty to talk about in the bar afterwards.

Id keep mine to. i dont think there is any need for this rule to change. As a previous post says you would be better off having new sails or even developing the rig some more.
Buy a boat im sure you wont be disappointed.

hope to see you soon

The prospect of optional bilge keels shouldn't deter new boat owners. As Andy Hay pointed out, this is not a back door route to smooth skin or chine hulls. The developement of the class is controlled very carefully by the Comitee who work hard protecting the Merlin brand-which the clinker hull is part of, and the class membership who are also wise, adn do not want to see the Merlin go the same way as other classes who didn't control developement in the same way.

Oliver, I am sorry that the rule change proposal has caused you some concern. We are proposing to make bilge keels optional, rather than mandatory. As has been expressed here and elsewhere, some people are adamant that they want to retain their bilge keels for various reasons and fair enough. I do not want to retain mine and hence I have put a proposal into the AGM to change the Rules.

There has been some debate as to whether there will actually be a performance change - Chris M may be right that there may be performance advantages to retaining them. Hence, I have proposed to make them optional to give people the choice.

Of course, as a FF15 sailor, you are well used to fashion and new boats causing upset to the existing fleet (was it the Ovi or Dingwall?). The Merlin Rocket, in spite of what people may think looking at the fleet at an open meeting, is not a one-design. At the current time, the class has been in one of the longest periods of stability that anyone can remember. Still, there are some playing with new designs and thought processes. Jon Turner has found some remarkable speed (for two old blokes :-) ) and Jasper is getting Wicked to the front of the fleet regularly. If Nick Craig sailed one of these boats, then would everyone immediately jump from the Winder product? I don't think so, but it might help start line discipline with more wooden boats in the mix.

Please make the switch to a Merlin, you will not regret it. As Jez says, invariably the Merlin evolutionary changes can be appended to older boats if you believe that there is a performance advantage for you.

Rest assured that there is no appetite for smooth hulls or anything else that will immediately make the current fleet obsolete. We all sail many £X,XXX of Merlin Rocket and we are all very keen to protect our investments.

Chris I = perhaps we can discuss this when we next meet up on the Silver Tiller circuit. Any member can propose a rule change within the constraints of the class constitution. This then goes to the RYA for ratification and then publication in the Rules issued the following March. They could refuse the rule change, but there would have to be over riding reasons - not being able to attend the AGM wouldn't be one of them. The class grandees, Salcombe week attendees (who comprise the majority at the AGM) and the class in general would not allow anything that will intrinsically destroy all that we hold dear.

That said, the Rules MUST evolve. The Winder product would not exist unless the Rules were changed. Carbon spars could not be used unless the Rules were changed. Laminate sails could not be used unless the Rules were changed. I could go on. Maintaining the status quo will kill the class in the long term but allowing and encouraging evolutionary development will have us excited about Merlin Rockets for another 60 plus years.

Whether the bilge keel proposal gets accepted is up to those at the AGM (and since we would need a 75% majority, the odds are stacked). I urge anyone with an interest to attend if possible.

For what it is worth for some weeks I have been considering getting a new Winder (my wife reminded me that the new kitchen was more important, ho hum). Would I consider that, if I thought that removing the bilge keels would render the boat obsolete?

Simple answer; order your new boat with velcro bilge keels.

Just tear them off after the AGM!!!

Nothing in the rules to say no as far as I can see...

(you heard it here first(-;)

I don't buy the 'rules must change' mantra.
Was a rule change necessary for carbon spars? I doubt they were banned in 1946...
Likewise sail material, the big debate last year was about clarifying the intention of the rule.
The rules are currently open enough to allow wing masts.
The class is very lucky to have arguably the best two person racing circuit in the UK, so the current stability in the rules clearly works.
Also, people talk about the 'quasi one design' make up of the fleet as if it's a new thing. A few minutes reading the yearbook shows that in many previous years the vast majority of boats sold have been the same design, look at all the Xii's in the early 60's for instance.
As an owner of an older Winder, whichever way this goes my boat needs work to be optimised, either fairing in the keels or chopping them off.  My concern is that if we lose the perception that 5 year old Winders are competitive we'll have less people racing.

Chris I.... as I work my way through the years as part of the new book, I come across exactly the point that you made - that the boat had somehow become 'one design'. Yet the more you look, the more it is clear that innovation has always been there. Maybe it is just that the fleet is now so competitive that many helms are simply 'risk adverse' - yet even now we're still seeing new ideas (and designs)bubbling away. Quasi one design may be the perception but.....only time will tell if it really is the reality!

D

To quote the 2012 yearbook, page 5:

... to review the Class Rules. They concluded that although the rules had served very well for over twenty years, it was advisable for them to become less restrictive if the Merlin Rocket was to continue to attract the keenest helmsmen and fill its important role as one of the few RYA development classes."

Again, page 5, "Terylene sails were adopted on 1st April 1959 and became the norm until the acceptance of mylar / laminate sails in 1987".

I remember a long AGM in 1992 (IIRC) at the Royal Plymouth Corinthian Yacht Club with the topic of conversation "carbon and the use within the fleet" - JT had made Phil King a carbon rudder and carbon spar manufacture was in its infancy.

The tweak to the rules recently corrected an anomality that sail tapes (draft stripes, colour edging, etc.) were technically illegal and this also allowed Tapedrive type sails at the same time.

The rule have continuously been tweaked since the inception of the class and I am sure will continue to be tweaked for a long time hence.