Please excuse what may be a very basic question...

When sheeting in hard on a beat the boom comes down very low and I am concerned that this is flattening the sail / losing power. I have tried pulling the traveller in a windward direction - it's a bit fiddly, but seems to work. The problem comes when I tack - as I have to have released the cleat on the leeward side to move the traveller upwind, when I tack the traveller gets pulled across to the leeward side of the boat on the new tack. Then I can't sheet in quickly. 

Another problem is that in order to get at the traveller cleats I need to sit in. If there's a reasonable wind I need to sheet out (and slow down!)to keep the boat upright whilst doing this.

At the moment, it seems quicker on short tacks (which they all are, as I sail on a resevoir) to leave the traveller in the middle - but that's just giving up, so I'm not happy!

Is the idea to pull the traveller past the centreline to windward at all, or is it just for letting the sail out? 
Is there a better set up than a cleat at each end of the traveller? 
Is there a magic technique that I need to know?

Dear Dan,
All the experts in the class are away at Salcombe so rather than leave you dangling, I thought I'd drop you a line. In the first instance are you talking about a traveller on top of a hoop or are you talking about a traveller that is attached to the thwart?
If the latter, I understand that the fashion is to bring the boom past the centre line to windward and play the main and kicker. I believe that the set up on the modern boats have a self tacking element so you can pull the carriage up to windward.
If we are talking about a proper mainsheet traveller, I know quite a bit about those.....! If you have one of the old designs such as a Smokers, then the main was whanged in as hard as it could be with the appropriate amount of kicker.One suggestion that you may not like to try is to put the traveller cleat on theside deck. I've done that and apart from it biting your clothing and appendeges(!), it works pretty well. Another thing that I've done in the past is to have a curved full length traveller and put a couple of clam cleats at the out end of each side and raised so that the rope falls in as easily as possible. If you want to be posh, get a Harken self tacking traveller. I have had two of those and they are the greatest invention since sliced bread! The idea here is that you find a couple of mainsheet tension marks, adjust the kicker to suit and just play the traveller as you would a mainsheet. However, playing the traveller is much easier!
Hope that is of some help.
Chris

Firstly some of the older sails were cut which gave droopy booms, No 1's were like this in the 70's. I used to tack using the traveller not with the main sheet. thus all I have to do was pull up on the traveller as i tacked.

Hi Dan. A great deal depends on the age and set-up of your boat. Do you have a full width traveller in an older boat or a traveller on top of a square topped hoop on a newer boat? In general the basic answers to your questions are as follows. Yes you will benefit from pulling the traveller up to windward when beating as this allows you to centre the boom without pulling down too much on the boom, which curls the leech to windward and stalls the airflow over the sail. You can see if you are hooking the leech and stalling the airflow by checking the leech telltales which should flow nicely (although the top one may disappear behind the sail at times according to how tight you have the kicker). Yes there is a better system than just having jam cleats at each end of the traveller and you certainly shouldn't need to go into the boat to uncleat the traveller. Without attempting to describe the system in detail, the idea is to have the windward and leeward cleats operating in a vertical plane facing each other in mirror image on opposite sides of the boat (this inevitably entails the use of a number of fairleads). You then have a line (with a ring or thimble at each end) stretched across the boat between the two cleats. The traveller control line passes through each ring as it passes through each jamming cleat. The ringed line is too short to allow the traveller control line to sit in both traveller jammers at the same time (again you will need fairleads to guide the lines). When you pull the windward side of the traveller control line, the ringed line is pulled taut across the boat (because the control line passes through the ring)and pulls the traveller line out of the leeward cleat, allowing you to pull the traveller up to windward where it will cleat on the new side. These systems take a bit of trial and error to set up to work reliably. There are all kinds of photos in the photo section of this site but they  mainly deal with the square topped hoop variants rather than the full width types, however the principle is still the same. If you still want the option of cleating the traveller in the centre you can make the ringed line detachable by using a clipped hook on on end so it can be detached from the system.
When you tack the traveller will move to leeward but if you have left the mainsheet jammed it doesn't take too long to pull the traveller up in order to effect the sheeting in. If you have got the mainsheet set to give the required leech tension then you can "play the traveller" in the gusts and leave the sheet alone. It is however probably easier to set the traveller in the windward position and then play the sheets if that is what you are used to (also you may have a less powerful purchase system on your traveller!)
Hope that is what you were looking for.

Sorry about any repetition - it took me so long to type my reply that Chris and Rob had alraedy given you answers!!

You can just about make out the jamming cleats and the ringed line at the base of this square topped hoop. Such an "auto-release" system can be made to work on a full width older traveller system.

Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. 
I'm glad to hear that I am trying to achieve the right thing.
It is an old-style full width traveller. I will experiment / make models with bits of string so that I understand how the ringed line system works before changing the boat.

Read this in case it applies to you!

You might want to build a new high hoop and track? http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/default.asp?folder=gallery/building_and_repairs/carbon_hoop_3386

Or see this one, for how to control the traveller: http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/view_photo.asp?folder=gallery/rigging_guide/mainsheet&file=traveller_controls.jpg
and: http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/view_photo.asp?folder=gallery/rigging_guide/mainsheet&file=traveller_release.jpg

Dan. Just to avoid any possible confusion, the pictures in Chris's links above show a variant  of the "ringed line" auto-release in which the swivel action of the mainsheet jammer pulls the control line out of the traveller jammer. You can still see the stainless steel fairlead in the middle of the thwart where the ringed line used to pass straight from one side of the hoop to the other. The latest square topped hoops use a straight line between the two sides (albeit hidden under the central moulding, as in the link below where the ringed line is the wire rigging with the thimble in the end). As I said before, the principle is the same for full-width travellers but with all the systems it takes a bit of fiddling to get the line lengths just right to ensure reliable operation.

Thanks everyone,
I was away at a conference this weekend, so spent my evenings putting bits of string, clothpegs and a straw into different configurations....I don't know what the staff made of it if they came to tidy my room! Anyway, clothespegs are not a good substitute for a jambing cleat - need to work it out using proper materials.

I like the idea of using the swivelling action of the mainsheet cleat to release the traveller, but think that that's getting a bit too cocky for the moment. Need to get a simpler system to work first.

We put a full width traveller on a phantom kipper because it had one before, and tried two cars on the track - a strop from each up to a block for the main sheet (similar height to the top of the hoop on later boats).  The two cars were intended to make it quicker to pull the boom up as there was a gap of about 500mm between them - as the boom crossed the centre, the opposite car took the strain. Then there wasn't so far to pull the new car across.
We used it so infrequently we took the whole lot off and put two fixed strops from the thwart up to the mainsheet block, which worked very nicely. Might be worth considering a low cost try out before investing in track and cars - theres a diagram on the forum  /website somewhere.

Why bother with a hoop &/or traveller?

Split tailed mainsheet with a transom bridle is the answer. Lighter, cheaper, more reliable, less clutter, less weight, better isolation of the various sail controls...

The hoop uncleating off the centrejammer is something I may have pioneered a few years ago when the origional JT system on Armed Forces wore out. It was a quick and easy fix that was so good I never changed it back, and a few people have since copied it.

The standard JT system is still fitted to all new boats sporting a hoop and is fine when it works. The problem is that when it either breaks, wears or stretches it ceases to work at all and is very temperamental to set back up. With the standardised boaus of today this is less of a problem.

If you are interested in the split tail mainsheet option I have an excellent description and diagram which I am sure Mr Campion would not mind if I shared with you. The split tailed solution is pretty elegant and doesn't seem to have any very obvious snags, but I haven't personally tried it yet.

David

I think you are going to be better sticking with your full-width traveller for the reasons given in Dan Alsop's tuning older boats article.  However, the position of your present cleats has to be rubbish and you may well be able to improve this and the lead from them.  If you have money to throw at the problem a traveller car with integral cleats incorporating the mechanism to uncleat the leeward side when you pull on the windward side is the way to go, but they are not cheap.  I've had a mainsheet bridle and I do not believe it gives the same pull on the the jib luff as a traveller.

David R

Can you email me a copy of the description and diagram for the split tailed mainsheet please?

I have an older boat I am experimenting with.

Thanks

The trouble with the split tail is trying to tack it. You either have to handbrake turn the boat (and still risk getting it stuck in the mainsheet), or use a tiller extension that is too short. Less importantly they are a nuisance when trying to fit a fixed rudder.

People do use split tails but they are very much in the minority, two or three circuit going boats at most.