NMS2 3462 The Sphinx

I honestly can't make up my mind - it that a travesty, or oddly beautiful?

Oddly beautiful, I think! 

Has been advertised in last months Y&Y for, I think, £400ono, so there's a starter for ten if bidding!

The stern is very wide for an NSM 2??

I've worked out why it seems odd - it ought to be a cherub! Then the paint job etc would look just right. But on a merlin it seems strangely out of place (except the carbon that is).

I quite like the loud paint job.
It would go with my loud shorts very well!!!

Mags,

having said that, Mike Cooke (Aardvark Technologies) bult a N12 similar paint finish space frame et al. Think there are some pictures on his website. Not that it is at all relevant to this conversation!

Definatley an NSM 2 I suspect the transom has been modified along with the rest of the boat. If the refurb job has been done properly which I suspect it has, it would make a good buy for someone who has all the bits of string, blocks cleats etc and a decent rig and sails.

I don't know that it was possible to so modify 3462 The Spinx. She had a foam sandwich hull when she was built for and finished by  Maurice Cockerill.

Tony, do you mean you dont think it is possible to do a good job of such a modification ? I ask because I am interested in the boat and wont get to see it before I would have to make a bid

I read the rules as saying you cannot have an innerskin of carbon - 

Has he done that or has he just painted it black? Better to find out before you bid.

Perhaps GGGGG can advise on the carbon skin part.

Thanks Miles - i'll ask - I think reinforcing areas with carbon is ok isn't it?

Nope. My understanding of the rules are no carbon in the hull, in and/or outside. E cloth for re-inforcement fine. BUT NO CARBON! You can use carbon on the decks (see 3640),capping of bouyancy tank and general gubbins thwart etc,  but that is about it. I am sure GGGGGGGG will confirm. 

In terms of repairs again I believe you will find that for the purpose of re-inforcement you would have to use e-cloth. NO CARBON. I asked a similar question when I needed to do a repair on my OK and that was the response I got. E Glass & epoxy or nothing!

Could this boat just possibly be the refurbishment job that a Graham Connor (?) or his aliases were discussing on the forum last year trying to persuade the Merlin community that carbon and 50kg hull weight was the way to go?

Could well be!

Just asked the question, reply should be on ebay soon.

if not I can email a copy to 'interested' if you leave email address

Internal carbon is o.k, if you read Kevin Drivers website www.theboatyardatbeer.co.uk I quote "the outside of the hull was made of glass fibre sandwich while carbon fibre was extensively used within 20kg of lead was then fitted " I would think that as Kevin Driver builds these for a living he should know!

it's ok, but not in the hull shell. I think Mr Driver is refering to thwart and knees and tank etc. "carbon fibre was extensively used within"

If you look on the merlin rules no:-4 hull measurements O (iv ) it clearly states that other materials can be used in high stress places it certainly does not say that carbon can't be used at all within the boat.

isn't that what I just said?

ooops! Pandoras Box...........

according to the ebay responses, carbon is only being used in the high stress areas

To put some of you at ease Graham never quite got round (well yet anyway!) to Carbonising a Merlin. But it does lead to the question if you can use carbon to build knees & bulkheads, how much of a 'flange' where it joins the hull shell can you have? 50mm? 300mm? 1.5mtrs?  If this doesent start Huff off then he's asleep! Barry.

Is it an optical illusion, or has he altered the stem? It looks raked - a la RS400 ?

Ill let you know when I pick her up tomorrow!

I thought that the stem and transom on a Merlin have to be perpendicular as the hull length has to be 14ft from the stem to transom and so if you raked the stem this would make it out of class on that dimension - but I might be wrong.

maybe ill have to go and race with the rs400s .....

As long as it slopes backwards or forwards (Depending on end!)not protuding outside the 14' it's ok there was a succesfulkboat called Slippery SAm that had a raked bow essentially a Proctor  9 with a cut back bow the idea was to prevent a hollow waterline fwd.

Optical illusion

What about Merlins with carbon cloth over the outside of their transoms? Are they legal? Anyone know?

Out of class, as 4 (g) (i) defines the transom to be part of the hull
and 4 (l) only permits glass cloth

4 (g) (i) There shall be a transom at the extreme aft end of the hull which
shall form part of the hull shell.

and

4 (l) Hull surface finishes shall be of paint, resin or fillers. In boats of wood,
plywood or closed cell structural foam construction any part of the hull
surface finish (external or internal) may be reinforced by layers of woven
or non-woven glass-fibre.

And that boat beat me at Bourne End!

The other night we were discussing differences in old and new rules. Old (and I mean old) boats were originally weighed with the centreboards out - ie bare hull but now they are weighed with boards in.  However the overall weight has remained the same over the years.  If you made a narrow "river style" Merlin out of the new foam sandwiched ply and put in one of the old style centreboards with lead on the tip (rather than correctors) to prevent excessive heeling how well would it go, one wonders, on a river?  As an aside where do you get the foam ply (is it "off the shelf" or is it made by the builder).

You can buy it...no idea where from though.

You will need to contact Laurie Smart for the answer. I am sure he told me he obtained it from Robbins Timber Bristol)but don't quote me!

to save you reading all the rules

(b) The weight of the centreboard shall not exceed 8kg.

DOn't know what a modern board weighs, maybe 4kg, so you could increase the weight in the tip I guess, although you wouln't need to go to far in building a light boat as I think most ply boats can be built to require 4kg of correctors

To:  Alan F, many thanks for info re carbon fibre exterior sheathing of transoms. One or two owners have some work to do!.

Alan,
Does the centre board case form part of the hull?

foam core:-

http://www3.gurit.com/marine/products_corecell.php

Reading the rules, the centreboard case is NOT specifically mentioned as part of the hull shell, whereas the transome is. From this (unless a measurer advises other wise) and there is plenty of mention of the centreboard case, so the rules have the opportunity to be specific, that the case can be carbon, or concrete ....?

Also note a ballasted centreboard offers no advantage if you are sailing the boat nice and flat ;)

No, but it helps you to get flat in the first place...and helps keep it flat.

As you remember from last year at Hampton Mags!!!

Is there anything about mixing "legal substances" on a hull? eg how about a wooden boat with a fibreglass or foam ply transom?
Only a theory - it'd probably look awful!

Rule k

Hull shall be of ONE of the following...

So no mixed components