Topic : Tideway Race June 18th

We have now had 25 entries from 14 different clubs, including Kate & 12 Vintage . Please try and get your entries and food requirements in early. 
Mervin has been practising manoeuvres in tight spots!


Posted: 15/04/2006 20:31:49
By: Nick Price

Ta for the update - Is it possible to list the entries todate?

Posted: 17/04/2006 20:27:46
By: Martin H
It would be great to see these boats kick-start the Tideway weekend at Tammy the day before!
Incase you've missed it, see notice & entry forms to race & party at:

Posted: 18/04/2006 11:30:20
By: Joe McL
Is the river wide enough?

Posted: 18/04/2006 11:45:25
By: stats
We can take up to 25 on the start-line (which is effectively the width of the river) as in previous years. The plan is to have flights.
Racing will be close, but that's half the fun of river wriggling!

Posted: 18/04/2006 16:44:06
By: Joe McL
you mean wriggling like you wriggled past on Sunday?

Posted: 18/04/2006 18:28:22
Quite frankly this number of entries is a bit dissapointing, surely most have decided by now whether or not they are going to attend...?  

Come on you Northerners, I know London is a big scary place, but please don't worry we will try to look after you. Don't forget Tamesis on the Saturday, we would also like entries in advance. Helps the organisers make plans and hopefully ensures a smoother running event.

It's typically a slow week after Easter (certainly is here) so no excuses.

Thanks AH..

Posted: 19/04/2006 10:39:36
By: Andy Harris
I may be temped out of temporary retirement for such a important and historical event. 

Posted: 19/04/2006 11:37:44
By: Wines man
Not disappointing.
I am sure there are plenty of pending entries, including this one. Northerners? we're from Africa!

Posted: 20/04/2006 00:10:00
By: Zulu
Okay, not dissapointing, perhaps encouraging that so many have already entered.  

North Africa....?

Posted: 20/04/2006 09:40:21
By: AH
Rumour has it there's a few West Country entries to come too, including ours

Posted: 20/04/2006 13:14:45
By: PJ
Why delay, send your entry in today....

Posted: 20/04/2006 15:07:13
By: Bard
May even see the Kraken.....!!

Posted: 21/04/2006 15:01:59
By: :)
what basis will you be splitting the fleet. I have been reliably informed by Andrew (Lighterman) Harris that you won't get the fleet under the first bridge.

Posted: 21/04/2006 15:28:38
By: Phil P
Fleet will be split into groups of about 20 by sail numbers, Vintage boats going off last. Boats that classify as Vintage are determined by Mervin or the MROA and are 30 years old plus. 3065 being the oldest this year. There's a strong case that some other limit might be used in future.

Posted: 21/04/2006 17:43:25
By: Nick Price
I understand that all competitiors will need to carry a kedge, what is the recommended length of line one of these should be attached to...?

Or should I say what is the minimum recommended length.

Posted: 24/04/2006 09:15:00
By: :)
We originally were asking for 60 ft but on reflection, 30 ft should be ample as the river is quite shallow at low tide. Towing warp should also be carried but could double up in terms of usage as long as you don't throw your kedge at the boat offering you a tow!

Posted: 24/04/2006 17:40:11
By: Nick Price
is there a date by which time we must have entered?

Posted: 24/04/2006 21:18:13
By: observer
Not as such but if we are restricted in numbers by the PLA it will be first come, first served.

Posted: 24/04/2006 22:10:43
By: Nick Price
OK I'm off my backside, Entry form going in post tonight.
Merlin 6, Iska

Posted: 25/04/2006 18:30:52
By: Chris
Good to hear Chris

Posted: 26/04/2006 08:08:38
By: Ian Continent
And ours is being posted after the fun in Scotland.

Chris do you want to borrow an anchor as I've two spare (good Beaulieu last weekend!)
We'll be at Baltic Wharf cvrda Sat.

Posted: 26/04/2006 12:35:24
By: Pat (2121)
Our entry is in the post today

Posted: 26/04/2006 13:26:50
By: Rich3465
Don't forget to make a weekend of it and enter for the Tamesis Silver Tiller while you're at it...

Posted: 26/04/2006 15:20:31
By: :)

Posted: 26/04/2006 15:21:03
By: ;)

Posted: 27/04/2006 13:40:40
By: ;-(
How do you do that....?

Posted: 27/04/2006 14:38:09
By: :|
Type into "Link (optional)" box and it appears magically as a link.

Type link in here (this isn't a link though!)

Posted: 28/04/2006 13:22:08
By: ;-)


Posted: 28/04/2006 13:50:26
By: :)
Just occured to me, any danger of getting any loose few volts down the stick under any of these bridges?

Posted: 02/05/2006 16:13:43
By: Sparky
Advice from river locals wanted.

I see a lifting rudder is recommended. How vital is this?

Posted: 03/05/2006 10:32:42
By: zulu
Only if you like your transom!

Posted: 03/05/2006 11:20:58
By: Jeremy3550
Lifting rudder is for the same reason as at Salcombe.  Once you are out in the middle of the stream you won't hit the bottom but if things go wrong you can potentially snag various bits and pieces in the water, mooring lines both present and past, dead animals, humans, seagulls etc.  I have survived a number of Salcombe weeks with a fixed rudder and if I am able to race the Tideway would probably use it there as my lifting rudder is so manky.

Posted: 03/05/2006 11:41:34
By: Andrew M
As we will be sailing around low water you may notice the river is no longer constrained by the concrete of London and reverts to a channel which is flanked by stoney beaches on either side.  In this respect there are likely to be; banks, bars and obstructions (shopping trollies etc...)just like any other shoreline. 

If you stick to the middle of the river you should be okay (it is quite wide).

Posted: 03/05/2006 11:50:43
Only shock you're likely to get is when you get the bill for your new mast, especially if it's carbon!
Lifting rudders; The tidal Thames is quite wide but it can be shallow even quite a distance from the "shore".

Posted: 03/05/2006 13:58:19
By: Nick Price
there's no secrets in this fleet are there!

Posted: 03/05/2006 18:19:40
By: Sparky
Remember that on this race you will always have the tide under you so sticking in the deep bit will pay

Posted: 04/05/2006 11:00:51
By: Andrew M
Really......stop stop you are giving away all our secrets!

Posted: 04/05/2006 12:32:59
By: sarky
including forum pseudonyms oh sarky Mr Dobby?

Posted: 04/05/2006 13:03:55
By: Andrew M
We'll never let on about the secret of Putney Bridge....

Posted: 04/05/2006 17:00:36
By: Interested Observer
I must be getting serious.
I see that insuarance cover of £3million is required. Surely most policies, including mine with a famous name insurer, is standard at £2million?

whats the norm these days?

Posted: 04/05/2006 19:33:09
By: zulu
What is the norm? mine with Bishop Skinner is for 3 million 3rd party. Be interested to hear from others. I assumed that was normal.

Posted: 04/05/2006 21:47:44
By: Nick Price
Guess again Dr Mills....

Posted: 05/05/2006 08:40:10
By: Mr Dobby
Mine is with Craftinsure and i am pretty sure it is a mere £2M. Did not think more than that was ever required?

Posted: 05/05/2006 09:06:27
By: Jeremy3550
Mine is for £3million with Bishop Skinner. I had more of a problem with a well known mirror insurer as their standard was £2million but our club requires £3M if racing

Posted: 05/05/2006 12:31:43
By: Steve3019
Oh! Just checked my policy with Noble Marine it is for 2M.
Can someone advise if this is going to be acceptable or not please.

Posted: 05/05/2006 14:32:03
By: Chris
We've just been working on the Sailing Instructions to send to the PLA and amended it to £2 million. 

Posted: 05/05/2006 14:50:46
By: Nick Price
Is it possible that it is a misprint in the sailing requirements as most policies seem to be for £2M  - I hope the barge that hits me will be well covered!!!

Posted: 05/05/2006 14:52:16
By: Everythings dear in London
Beat me to it!!

Posted: 05/05/2006 14:52:37
By: Everythings dear in London
Would anyone be available to take some video footage of this event? At Ranelagh for the start and finish as well as at the tuning mark on the Westminster side of Lambeth Bridge. I have a camera that could be used. Still photos would also be good. Please email me if you are interested.

Posted: 10/05/2006 09:18:28
By: Nick Price
Just out of interest - how are numbers coming along now please? I there will hope fully be a load of merlins!

Posted: 10/05/2006 10:16:16
By: 3555
Haven't seen the post today but 47 as of yesterday. 21 different clubs with Forfar being the furthest away. Well done Garry!

Posted: 10/05/2006 10:24:42
By: Nick Price
I would reply to this but have set off aready!!

Posted: 10/05/2006 10:58:44
By: Garry R
Great to see you've entered for Tammy ST & party too Gary!

Posted: 10/05/2006 11:33:29
By: JM
Hmmm, being still unsure about entering, I suppose videoing the event might still be fun for me.

Or does anyone need a crew?

Posted: 10/05/2006 14:08:19
By: Mags
One of our members, Victor West, could use a crew. He is very experienced and has a Phantom Kipper. We'd also be happy for you to film.
Let me know.

Posted: 10/05/2006 17:08:41
By: Nick Price
2 more entries sent out in the post last night, it must be north of 50 now. Let’s try and get this one into the history books.

Posted: 11/05/2006 10:34:35
By: Tom Porkins
My recollection of this is that carnage is much more likely at Putney Bridge than on the start line and the interest factor is much increased by the 3 kts of tide under the boat and the fact that a Merlin mast will only just fit under the centre of the arch and not at all at the sides.  The bridge comes up on you very quickly...

Posted: 11/05/2006 13:13:21
By: Andrew M
Who will be trying to sneak round the sides, heeled over at 45degress then? Garry will, with his rolled side decks!

Posted: 11/05/2006 13:44:34
By: Mags
There be monsters..

Posted: 11/05/2006 16:07:40
By: :)
so an original 25ft mast might cause some entertainment - even with rolled decks? I think John with no. 36 is thinking about it.

Posted: 11/05/2006 17:50:41
By: Chris
I remember doing it in 'Crew Cut' 684 - my very first Merlin Rocket,
she had a 22ft 6in rig. Me and Dad, who was crewing, had to heel over to get under and the racing flag just scrapped along the underside of the bridge.
The thing to remember is that we were going all the way to Tower Bridge - so the wise race committee at Ranelagh had to start us soon enough to carry the ebb tide all the way. I think they they had some sort of mark on the wall and postponed until we could just get under.
The added complication is that the wind funnels through the arch so boats are usually head to wind or on a dead run!!
This year we are not allowed to go so far - by the PLA - so even if we started half an hour later then we would have about a foot more clearance? Trust in John Stokes - we will get under.

Posted: 11/05/2006 20:15:03
By: Pat Blake
Thanks, Pat. I have booked to come with Iska no. 6, she has a 22ft 6 rig. I think Mervyn's Kate is 24 ft perhaps he could do a test one day beforehand!

Posted: 11/05/2006 21:02:37
By: Chris
My boat 111 has had the rig lopped to 21'6" - was this as a result of going under Putney bridge (or more likely NOT going under Putney bridge) Doesn't sound as if I will need to heel!!

Posted: 12/05/2006 08:44:43
By: Garry R
It used to be said that if you got under Putney you'd get under all the others! However lots of people proved that wrong!

Posted: 12/05/2006 11:05:27
By: Ancient Geek
Mervyn will probably be leading the fleet anyway so if he crunches we can head back to base!!

Posted: 12/05/2006 11:08:18
By: Garry R
Fleets will be arranged by sail numbers with the vintage/older boats at the back. Don't want to risk all those valuable old boats if the leaders have problems:)
Seriously it is true that if you can get under Putney, you'll get under the others as long as you don't sail too close to the sides of the arches on those bridges that have them.
In past races, as Pat said above, boats had to get down to the Tower and have time for a picnic while they waited for the tide to turn. This year it will just be round the mark and straight back so we'll be starting later in relation to the tide and consequently there will be more headroom everywhere. The trick will be starting at Putney so that all the boats reach Westminster (Lambeth Bridge) at slack tide. (Early boats might have to anchor for a short period or go ashore if there is not enough wind to sail against the tide). Time to get down will depend a lot on the wind on the day though with the tide under you in both directions we won't need too much.

Posted: 12/05/2006 11:52:14
By: Nick Price
I don't know how long it takes tide born without wind, but I do know that the Late - Great - Sir Alan - A. P. Herbert (Patron Saint of Lost Causes and Grandfather of Jeremy Pudney!) Who was M.P. for Oxford University (In the Days the two Universities elected their own M.P's - Up to 1951.) once swam down tide from his house on Hammersmith Terrace (Quite close To the present London Corinthian building.) to the House of Commons it can't have taken too long!

Posted: 12/05/2006 11:58:45
By: Ancient Geek
Herbert by name....

Posted: 12/05/2006 12:28:08
By: :)
If  you'd done as much as APH..................... Those of us with ex-wive have good reason to be grateful to APH as he put through the first sensible divorce laws as a private members bill, he also shamed the LCC as it then was into providing the London Corinthian with a new clubhouse (circa 1960) and very grand it still is, when it was evicted to make way for the Hammersnoth Flyover.

Posted: 12/05/2006 13:38:10
By: Ancient Geek
Swimming the Thames from Hammersmith to Westminster Bridge is sheer folly...

Posted: 12/05/2006 14:02:30
By: :)
Yes but not dull! Remember in those days 1930's the River was if not cleaner, less polluted.

Posted: 13/05/2006 10:52:15
By: Ancient Geek
The Thames Sailors Ballad.

Sailing down my dirty stream
Still I love it and I'll keep the dream
That some day though maybe not this year
My London River will once again run clear.
It starts high in the mountains of the North
Clear and icy trickles forth
With just a few floating wrappers of chewing gum
Dropped by some hikers to warn of things to come.

At Dartford Bridge, five thousand honest hands
Work at the Consolidated Paper Plant
Five million gallons of waste a day
Why should we do it any other way?
Down the valley one million toilet chains
Find my Thames so convenient place to drain
And each little town says, "Who, me?
Do you think that sewage plants come free?"

In the great ocean, they say the water's clear
But I live at Southend Pier here
Half way between the mountains and sea
Tacking back and forth, this thought returns to me
Sailing up my dirty stream
Still I love it and I'll dream
That some day though maybe not this year
Yes, my Thames and my country will run clear.

Apologies to Pete Seeger

Posted: 13/05/2006 15:31:57
By: Homer (Ancient Greek Poet.)
I'm not sure there is much pleasure to be had swimming in rivers such as the Thames, either with or against the tide. Chairman Mao once swam 38 kilometres in the Yangste. In A P Herbert's time it wasn't so much a question of swimming, more like going though the motions.Of course when he got to the House of Commons there would be more motions to go through.

Posted: 14/05/2006 00:29:06
By: Nearly as Ancient
I beg to disagree with A.G. about the condition of the River in the 1930s. My grandfather was a Thames Waterman and a tug skipper then and used to tell us about the terrible state of the River. Huge colonies of rats were his biggest fear. 

By the late 1800s Bazelgette's massive sewage works had eliminated the 'Great Stink' and the River did become cleaner. However during the first half of the 20th century industrialisation (e.g. the Ford factory, coal fired power stations etc) reversed the trend.

It's much cleaner nowadays and I don't think a stomach pump is recommended for capsize victims like it supposedly was when I first sailed at Ranelagh in 1951. If A.P. Herbert actually did that swim (he was a storyteller don't forget) he was just plain lucky to get away with it.

Posted: 14/05/2006 10:51:13
By: Robert Harris
APH did swim it there's a picture in the House of Commons Library. 
There is little poetry in Motion though I do agree!
Yes Robert is right but if its not an oxymoron it was cleaner sort of pollution it still supported fish up to 1940 the year the last Thames Salmon was caught untill quite recently.

Posted: 14/05/2006 15:51:50
By: Ancient Geek
One other thing. For those with Broad Band, (Former Merlin Crew Billy Allen was a Pathe Cameraman.) there is some footage of the first Tideway Race run as the final event of The City of London Festival in 1961. Both Grey Goose and AG sat that out watching the sea in a gale at Whitstable!

Posted: 14/05/2006 16:09:53
By: Ancient Geek
They had so much fun in the Mansion House. One of the most frustrating days of my life.

Posted: 14/05/2006 18:20:51
By: Robert Harris
P.S. It was won by Robin Fowler of Minima Y C in his home built Solo

Posted: 14/05/2006 18:26:51
By: Robert Harris
Lollipop was given to Ranelagh by Robin and is still sailed regularly at Putney. We're up to 53 entries now, more come in every day and we can take up to 90.

Posted: 14/05/2006 22:09:26
By: Nick Price
Come on the oldies!!  More of the 3 and early numbered 4 figure boats to redress the balance in our favour!!!

Posted: 15/05/2006 08:42:40
By: Garry R
Will we need ship to shore?

Posted: 23/05/2006 10:15:50
By: Navigation hazards?
58 entries now, 24 different clubs. Entries close June 4th. Sailing instructions will be emailed during the week after that to those who have supplied an email address and posted on the Ranelagh Home page. Please enter early so we can advise caterers etc.

Posted: 25/05/2006 23:33:58
By: Nick Price
Did we come to any conclusion on the insurance required for Tideway - £2million or £3million - entry still says £3 million

Posted: 04/06/2006 17:11:10
By: Doobie
sorry its probably further up this topic but to ask again is the anchor and paddle bit mandatory

Posted: 04/06/2006 19:42:18
By: Col B
Insurance is OK at 2 million, anchor and paddle are mandatory. 30 ft Anchor line can double up as towing line.

Posted: 05/06/2006 06:06:55
By: Nick Price
As the Tideway is a Vintage wing event it is comforting to us oldies that the forecast for London on 18th June is good and that the arthritis index will be 4 (out of a possible maximum 10) for the day.

Posted: 05/06/2006 13:15:45
By: Garry R
Is it too late to enter now then? I am still looking for a crew! Getting very close to finding one.

Posted: 05/06/2006 19:14:42
By: Jez
Try Mags - a little arm bending would go a long way I feel!!

Posted: 06/06/2006 08:18:21
By: Garry R
I am experiencing a problem downloading the Si's from Ranelagh. Normally launches something called adobe as it did for the lovely bridge map and course. Houston, do I have a problem?

Posted: 06/06/2006 13:13:17
By: technophobe
Looks OK to me - what happens when you click the PDF link then?

Posted: 06/06/2006 13:24:54
By: Mags
you get a preliminary notice and an entry form. What we actually need is the SI's so we can determine whether we are an A,B or C so we know when unhitch and set up etc.

Posted: 06/06/2006 13:42:37
By: technophobe
Beg your pardon. Either way its the Ranelagh website, so email Nick Price (presume his address is on their site) and he ought to be able to help.

Posted: 06/06/2006 17:29:49
By: Mags
The preliminary instructions are on Ranelaghs site as well but click below where it says HERE for each of the other items. left click to open, right click to download.

Posted: 06/06/2006 22:20:32
By: Nick Price
Hi - does anyone have a spare paddle and anchor please? 


Andy 07977 417754

P.S. Rental payment issued in beer.

Posted: 08/06/2006 09:10:03
By: Andy 3555
Is it possible that anyone competing who may or may not work for a well known chandlery could arrange safety packages for us to purchase on the day. eg the anchor, paddle etc because although the anchors are cheap the postage is ridiculous and then there's always the problem of getting a paddle in the letter box!
Show some Lional...............and give the competitors some peace of mind. I for one looke at the Si's and nearly got scared off with all the bits and bobs.

Posted: 08/06/2006 10:21:25
By: entrepreneur
What a good idea!!

Posted: 08/06/2006 10:39:22
By: Garry R
In fact the club could arrange this with the supplier on a sale or return basis,and stick a quid on the package price to support the Thames lifeboat and also know that all competiors will be street legal and no-one will be turned away. How easy is that? boom basil brush would say!

Posted: 08/06/2006 10:46:26
By: entrepreneur
Chas Newens are chandlers on the hard at Putney and will be open on the 18th from about 10-12am. They have a few pairs of inflatable oars which are the cheapest option as they can be spilt to make 2 paddles for abour £10 each. They will get in some grapnel anchors of 2.5kg which will retail for about £8.50 each. They also sell rope if you need it.
Please let me know if you are going to need an anchor/paddle so I can make sure they have enough. Have to be ordered by tomorrow (Friday) morning to be sure of being there.

Posted: 08/06/2006 12:43:34
By: Nick Price
Can you ask them to get in the 1.5kg plastimo, they retail at 4.95 from a well known supplier but postage is about 8 quid.that's a lot of money wasted that could go to the RNLI Thames Lifeboat. Maybe a package price would be useful, can the club organise?

Posted: 08/06/2006 13:04:24
By: Unhappy Shopper
Tip - if buying towing/anchor line get something suitable to be a replacement main halyard.

Posted: 08/06/2006 13:32:34
By: PJ
Dear Unhappy,
Bearing in mind they don't normally stock the Plastimo unit, how many do you/others want. I use a 2.5kg and would be unsure that anything less would hold in a 3 kt stream.

Posted: 08/06/2006 14:49:29
By: Nick Price
Q.are you making that the minimum weight then bearing in mind your experience of these reaches? Is there a minimum wt defined in si's. It would be a dreadful pity to  for a scrutineer to turn away your 1.5kilo plastimo lovely. If I were Chas Newman i would ship in 50 of your mimimum reqirement piece. at 5 quid retail, quid for vat and 50% mark up his outlay would be aboy 100 quid, heck buy 70! Whould there be any value in you consulting with the law makers, organising chas can supply 70 anchors paddles and pieces of string at a certain price, let us have his email or phone number so we can place the order. But where do I stand if I have a 1,.5 kg plastimo and boss Nick doesn't like it. Clarity and Guidance!

Posted: 08/06/2006 15:13:26
By: This is not hard
No weight has been specified in the SI's. The MROA are doing the scutineering and it is up to them.

Posted: 08/06/2006 15:17:40
By: Nick Price
nick, lets make this easy please.Presumably you are local and the race is run by Ranelagh, SI's are published by Ranelagh so you as Ranelagh have consulted with the MROA on this special safety kit. Please can you give us a minimum requirement that is practical and safe and will please the scrutineers. You have one guy in this tread that thinks 2.5mm spectra constitutes a towline. In order to please all completitors and safety personel, please please set out a minimum requirement. Thank you the end.

Posted: 08/06/2006 15:26:21
By: This is not hard


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