Hi There

Having looked through the latest magazine, I noticed that many of the boats sailing off-wind legs are not using the barber haulers on the guy. only a couple of shots seem to show that they are used but these are on the newer boats where they have been replaced by studs in the gunnel.

Unfortunately I cannot come to the training weekend which is a real shame as I just got the boat, however I was hoping that some kind person would enlighten me as to when the spinaker guy should be pegged down with the barber hauler and when it should not.

Thanks in advance

ed

The simpler arrangement than barber haulers is the little fitting you have seen on the gunwhale by the shroud which the guy slips under on a reach and pops out from after the gybe with no crew intervention needed.  Either way there are 2 reasons for pinning down the guy, the most important being that otherwise it gets in the way of the crew on a reach.  It also helps to reduce the load on the pole downhaul on a reach.  It's not needed on the run

Ed, don't confuse the barber haulers with "studs" in the gunwhale.

The barber-haulers are to move the jib sheets.  They are obviously similar to the twinning lines used on Larks etc to pull the guy down.

The studs, or "reaching buttons" are usually thru-deck bushes bolted to the gunwhale, level with the shrouds.  These are to keep the guy out of the helm and crews way when sitting on the side and flying the kite.  They were a fantastic addition to our boat and certainly the best bang for 3 quid we spent on the boat!  They are also self-releasing when, as a good helm you give the guy a good tug when dropping the kite, the guy "magically" pops out!

I know nothing about barber-haulers so I will defer to someone who knows stuff!

It's really up to you.  The 'nipples' fitted more recently to gunwales are much the easiest way to keep the guy to deck level, surpassing twinning lines and the reaching hooks which were common a while ago.  As Andrew says, they are most important in facilitating crew movement around the boat.  However, we and I think others, now adjust our knots so that if it's windy and it looks unlikely that the crew is going to be in the front half of the boat during the reaches, that the pole is off the forestay without the use of the nipples.  This is for two reasons.  Firstly it makes it easier to control the kite just after hoisting, rather than fighting with the guy to get it restrained with the pole bent round the forestay, and second it means that the crew can grab hold of the guy with their hand...

Thanks guys, sorry about the confusion, I realise that the Jib has barber haulers too, I did actually mean that my Merlin has twinning lines through a cam cleat with a continuous contol line across the boat... 
 
so if using a gunnel nipple instead - if its a windy reach and the crew is in the back half of the boat, do they go forward to put the guy under the nipple. I like the idea of them self releasing during the gybe and not having to cleat and uncleat another control line.

Are these a specialist fitting or do most of the chandelers sell them ?

Thanks again

and sorry about the bad spelling too !

Ed, they are thru-deck bushes as sold by all chandleries.

The choice is yours.  In normal use the knots in the spinnaker sheets are set so that the pole is just off the forestay when the guy is under the nipple.  As wind increases/pole angle is altered it is necessary to adjust the knots or cleat the guy in a slightly different position to make sure the pole is off the forestay.  When it's proper hiking out down reaches windy it can be a struggle to get the guy under the nipple after the kite's hoisted, if the helm can't get them under whilst the crew is hoisting for some reason.  You're then in the position that the pole is wrapped around the forestay and you need to re-cleat the guy to get it off.  Which usually ain't that easy either!

So if you move your knots such that the pole is off the forestay without the nipples then you've got rid of that particular problem.  And it means that a bit of the old p$u*�$g can be done much more easily!

Deepy, perhaps you can explain, what has inflating things got to do with trimming the spinnaker? Am I missing something?

GGGGGGG

Lol, thanks Graham, you've cleared that up for me!

Am I the only person in the fleet who doesn't like the (gunwhale!!) nipples, and has actually removed them?

I found them very difficult to use compared with reaching hooks, and they had a nasty habit of releasing themsevles on a broadish reach.

I prefer reaching hooks myself but only when you cut the rubber lug off them. Rollers jump but then it could be down to lack of style

never had a problem with mine jumping out, although they do need replacing every year or so.  Anyway, I'm not so sure you want them in on a broad reach?!  Must be that bicycle thing again...

I suppose it depends on how far back you need to sit. I found in my new boat i didn't need to sit as far back as i did in Armed Forces, obviously due to some minor hull differance.

This means that the hooks are still necessary as you go deeper if you need to sit out.

On the other hand Shooting Tsar never had hooks for years because the boat nosedived so soon (Hence the nickname "Kursk"!) that as soon as it starts to plane you sit behind the fairleads.

Either way the nipples have been ceremonially melted and replaced with standard seasure hooks after a major sense of humour failure on the windy day at Hollingworth.

Fair enough - each to their own as they say.  Have to add that I think I'd rather sit on a nipple than a hook, but that's down to personal preference too I guess...!

If you want to fit them it's cheap & straightforward.  The placcy bits are 2 stainless lined deck bushes, forget the exact size but the hole down the middle fits a 4mm bolt.  Drill your hole in the appropriate place (look at where they've been put on a boat where you know the system works and copy it) and bolt through the gunwhale with washers below the fitting and at the back.  Use a nylock nut.  This thread reminds me I need to replace mine as they've worn out.

great info guys - thanks.

does anyone have the official dimension back from the bow to locate these fittings, or is it close enough to say by the shroud ?

Deepy, where are your nipples ??? !!! (no obvious answers please, or if so, make it funny !)

I have a Winder Mk 1

Cheers

ed
3582

Lol Chris, reach for your Grays Anatomy!

This morning I found that mine were on each side of my stern (um)

A photo of this arrangement would be good - I just can't visualise it.  Sorry

Perv

Perv

Oh dear it wasn't meant to sound like that!!!!!  Honest Guv!!

I have always found that pulling 90%-95% of the new twining line in before a Gibe will help stop new pole from skying as your putting it on.

Poles don't sky with a multi-purchase snodger