Hello all. Please could someone please give me a quick review of the plastic / carbon variations of Canterbury Tales available.

On the for sale page there a a few CT for sale, are these all Mk1 Winders, (apart from the one that is converted), 

Also please could someone advise if it is possible to convert these older CT's to "one string" rig adjustment, and what is involved in this process - is it just a case of buying the new fittings, or is the hull moulded differently to accomodate the new fixing points ?

Thanks in advance

ed

The Winder Tales are all Mods of the original. However there are now 4 variations of the Winder boats. Pretty much all the boats in the 3600's are mk3's would suggest the ones on the list are all mk1's. Have you considered the other designs on there? I have a Let It Ride which is quick and the EZ Roller is proven to be quick too.

Thanks for the quick reply - the situation is that I am currently sailing a Phantom, but want to get back into two man boat sailing, and I think that a Merlin would fit the bill perfectly. Its either that or a GP14, but I think I would find it a bit slow, although there is good fleet racing available.

There was a NSM4 at our club a long time ago, which went well, but I get the feeling that CT's are now dominating ?? 

Mt budget would be about 7K max, so that is why I was looking at the CT's currently available.

I have no desire to sail a piece of furniture around, so that may help to keep the costs down, I know that Merlins are expensive - but is my budget realistic and what can I expect to pick up for this budget.

When do most people in the fleet upgrade their boats, will there be a wide choice in Spring 06, or is now the best time to try to find a boat for next season.

Do you think there would be any success in putting a WANTED ad on the website !!??

Thanks again for your help

ed

my boat is the best of the bunch and i will do you a deal if you buy before the end of october. Finished well at the nationals and was the best of the CT1's.

Winder MK1 - Basically identical hull to the Jon Turner plastic boats but with the centrboard moved slightly forward and a plastic deck. Around 9kg correctors.

MK 2 (3608+) - Bilge keels faired in to reduce drag, main keel also faired. Centreboard case shortened. Carbon tank tops, foredecks and one string start rigs to appear. Around 12kgs correctors.

Mk3 (3627+) - Stem dropped about 2 inches. Some boats feature bilge keels continued to the transom to increase offwind stability. More carbon used in deck construction therefore lighter and more lead (Unsure on this - 20kgs??)

Mk4 (3661+) - Further fairing in of planks. I'm not sure any other mods so can anyone else comment??

There have been boats that have had the hull changes retrofitted. 3620 and 3586 have both had the Mk3 bow and bilge keels fitted, I think Andy Harris had his boat altered and there are others.

You've had a good set of sensible responses. Next step is suck-it-and-see. You may notice both the two Winder CT Mk1s and one Winder Mk3 conversion on the for sale list are at Whitstable. I confess mine is the conversion and no, we are not all giving up, we all have new Mk5s on order. This is a buyer's market and we are all negotiable. We have a big fleet here: a few older wood boats including the original Canterbury Tales and 2 modern wood CT variants, 4 Winder Mk1s, 1 Mk2, 2Mk 3 conversions, 3 Mk3s, 1 Mk4, 1 Mk5 (1 week old!). Now here's the point - there ain't much to choose between us. We have terrific close racing on open sea and we all have our firsts and lasts. Sure the Mk4 and newer Mk3s head us more often, but, hey, they're probably our best sailors and have newer kit. Now and again we all kick their ragged asses and keep them honest. Why don't you come down and spend a weekend with us (Club bedrooms £12 a night) have a look at the three boats for sale in your price range (including the mysterious "observer"). Sail them all if you want. Race with us if you feel up to it and make a truly informed choice based on reality not cyberspace. Email [email protected].

Oops, sorry, I forgot your other questions.
1.No you cannot retrofit proper "one-string" system into existing boats. It is because the fittings are built into the internal mouldings before the boat is assembled.
2.For piy's sake don't compare a GP14 to a Merlin. It is the difference between an overweight donkey and a race horse. I speak as an ex-GP14 national champion crew.

Thanks Mike for your reply. I agree the response has been great. Far more than I expected.

I agree that a GP14 would be a slow option, but it would give good tactical kite based sailing albeit at a slower pace ! I am currently sailing a Phantom, which is only a little slower than a MR, so I appreciate the excitement involved. I bet a MR is not as hard work up-wind in a blow as a Phantom !! I intend to keep my single hander, and thought the MR looked perfect !

Thanks again to all who have helped.

ed

Sailed a Phantom once- hurt so much I went back to Finns! Be assured Merlins need to be sat out but it isn't agony and you can concentrate on tactics and the thrills of 3-sail speed all at the same time. Come and try some.
Mike F

Ed, you don't say where you are based?  If you haven't had a look at a recent merlin it would be a good idea - you are spending enough to buy a very competitive boat, so it would be worth seeing what you would be getting - it might be worth getting a slightly older hull with a Chipstow mast for example, if the prices are comparable.

Hope to see you at either Blithfield or Parkstone?

Regards,

GGGGGGG

Hi Ed

Sure there's some good advice on here -but don't get too hung up on Hull Types -  I sail Alan Warren's old Mk1 Winder CT - I think you will find the difference in boatspeed between the various hulls esp. inland, is as near as damn it - nil.  What does make the difference is the rig.  Look for a rig that is a) In good nick and b) is matched - If it's a Superspar mast make sure the Main is cut for a Superspar luff curve - if it's a Chipstow then ditto - make sure it's matched.  As Chris M said earlier - inland I doubt you will notice any difference in Mast type - unless the mast and sail don't go together.  However one thing you will notice is the difference in build quality between a Winder Merlin and any Phantom - our seven year old boat has absolutely no compression cracking anywhere (and it has been used hard -ask Alan Warren) and is still quick on the odd occasion it is pointed in the right direction.  All the Winder CT's  and Kevin/Lintons Boats are perfectly good boats - and are all pretty much on the pace with the right kit.

So in summary find a good strong boat with a decent rig - haggle and then get on with it.  Believe me if you start now - you will have probably got the hang of the tweaky rig by next Spring.   Just one thing - take Mike's advice and forget the GP 14!

All the best   
Ian

Another factor might be the sort of racing you want to do.  Are you going to handicap race in your club for the foreseeable, or are you going to take your racing snake to all the Merlin events?  Some hull forms are optimised for specific conditions - look at the Meeting reports for the older boats doing great things in river racing for instance.

As a Merlin sailor from the mid 70's to the mid 90's I still have an interest in the class.
 
It seems to me, from a distance, that the Merlin may be reaching it's ultimate in performance with no GREAT advances in hull shape, rig or materials at the moment or to come in the future.
 
What could the next development be?

This is not necessarily a bad thing, for the majority of people, as they may now see the Merlin as a modern, exciting and technically advanced boat
that is worth getting involved with as it is not going to be outdated too soon.

I would be interested in the views of current Merlin sailors.

Wing mast wing mast wing mast!!

I Can't see that there is much more that can be done really without getting a little close to a Int 14. My boat is almost full width from infront of the twart to the transom. Maybe we could add some wings? Then a bit more sail area? and a bigger spinaker?

I wish I worked in the city. All well and good putting bigger kites and go fast stuff on the boats but remember the foundations of the class as well - competitve cheap secondhand are most peoples entrance to the class.

As for wings - they are so passe, hydrofoils thats the thing for 21st century......

Dear When,

You can have a wing mast today if you sort it out yourself.

I know - I just want to see it happen!  One day....