Currently sail an Enterprise at club and on open circuit.  Quite interested in getting a Merlin.  Does their narrow beam at the water line make them quite tippy?

Depends upon which design and what wind conditions [like any other boat], NSM1 is a good introduction from Enterprise.

See Design guide. Find your local Merlin Rep, and see if you can try a merlin. 

If you are anywhere near Bala North Wales, I can try to arrange a test sail for you.

I seem to recall finding the Ent pretty tippy when I sailed one at school....

The reputation for the Merlin being tippy goes back to really quite a long time ago, now, and evolution has made it a lot less so.  Coming from an Ent you would have no trouble at all and would really enjoy the finesse that comes with the boat.

Where are you based? 

GGGGGGGG

I agree with GGGGGGGG-Merlins are certainly less tippy these days. The Satisfactions were a bit wobbly but my recollections of sailing an Enterprise in a lot of wind are not very enjoyable!If you join the Class, you'll have a lot of fun.

Contact your regional rep (see link) and get a test sail to find out!

I thought mine was tippy when I first sailed it...then I learnt not to keep yanking at the rudder so darn harshly. 
Certainly no more tippy than any other fast modern dinghy.

Thanks for the quick and encouraging responses.  The Ent certainly has quite a powerful main (?as big a a Merlin's) and can be tricky in a blow but the hull is inherently stable.  I was wondering if the Merlin was inherently unstable like e.g. a 29er.

I am based at Ogston SC in Derbyshire.

This seems like a great forum - very active.

As some of the replies have said, it depends a bit on the design and the web site has a comprehensive design guide. As Merlin hull shapes developed the ones that were more difficult to control have gone through a process of natural selection, resulting in the most recent half a dozen designs being pretty easy to manage, designs suchs as NSM 1, 2, 4 Canterbury Tales and derivatives there-of to mention a few.

That said, modern wide Merlins are not stable when stationary, but become stable when underway, so the first time an Ent sailor steps into a MR the boat will undoubtably roll dramatically - especially if you are stepping off a pontoon, 4 tips
1 - make sure the gunwhale isn't over lapping the pontoon or you may snap it off
2 - don't jump in
3 - try to step in near the stern as the hull is wide and flat there
4 - try to step in close to the centre line and whack on a little c/board

Enterpise Helms adapt very quickly to Merlins. Different matter regarding the crew, as an Ent crew really doesn't have anything challenging to do, however crewing a Merlin has such a variety of activities related to boat handling and rig tuning and the helm has the easy job of simple steering :-)

Thinking about moving from an Ent to a Merlin means that you are beginning to think you need a new sailing challenge. I moved from GP14s to Merlins and love every second of it.

Martin,

I moved into a Merlin from N12s three years ago. Compared to a 12 they are a lot more stable. I think the length is significant here. If memory serves me right the problem with the Enterprise is the rudder is a bit small, not a problem in a Merlin as you can have any size rudder you like! The one thing with the Merlin though is you have a more powerfuil rig and if things get too far out of shape throwing your weight about in the boat may not always save the situation. As has been said, there's more to interest the crew - enjoy!

Actually the Ent rig is a handful in a blow because it can't easily be depowered except with the kicker.  It is a great boat for close tactical racing.  A good crew works hard on kinetics (not quite the same as pumping!!) which probably doesn't feature as much in a merlin but I am excited by the new challenges a merlin would pose.  Apart from that I think it is such a beautiful looking boat!

Martin,

If you look under the 'getting started, try one out' section on the front page of the web site there are contact numbers for Steve Watson and Richard Whitworth.  If you phone either of them (you are right in the middle for them!) they will put a club with a variety of Merlin ages in touch with you for you to visit to help you work out the best option for you in terms of cash and design.

Another possibility is for you to visit Rutland next weekend (29, 30, 31) where we are holding the annual race training weekend.  There will be a range of boats there that you could have a sail in.  I will be there, so if you want to pay a visit please give me a ring on 01252 319593.

Happy hunting and look forward to welcoming you to the class.

I started out in Enterprises and still sail them at the Southport 24 hr race.
My view is that they are actually more difficult to sail cos they seem to like screwing to windward.  Merlins are just better balanced.

If you want to try a Merlin out you could pop along to Blithfield Sailing Club, Derbyshire, where there are some fine yotters or pop down to The Big City Birmingham, at Midland Sailing club where we could show you a variety of boats old and new. We sail Saturday afternoon.

Call me to discuss.  0121 420 4328.

steve

If you come to Rutland I'm sure you can have a blast in mine...  It's quite a way down-market from the top but is probably a good example of what you could get for between 1000 and 2500 pounds.

how stable are they compared to the mirror?

Not

I get really p****d off with all the (GP14 etc) lot at our club every time we get an open day.

New people who don't sail come along asking for advice and these people say "Oh you don't want a Merlin, they're veeerrrrrry tippy"

What they really mean is "I haven't got the balls to sail a boat that will give me a sharp reminder when I sail it badly"

So for you guys who are already good sailors and like to go fast and want a little bit of a challenge, I say to you Ignore the GP lot and have a go in a Merlin, there are so many different designs you will certainly find one that will suit you.

Jon

I think it really depends on the ability of the sailor.  Yes, a fairly competent Enterprise or GP sailor can jump straight into a Merlin and get along fine, but I've occasionally seen novices buy an oldish Merlin because they like the look of the boat, then spend a lot of time swimming and generally having problems, before giving up in frustration.  

Much better to present the Merlin as an achievable challenge, something to aspire to once your new members have mastered the basics in a more forgiving class.  The Merlin is a quality product, there is no need for a hard sell approach.  You don't want to come across as elitest and push newcomers away from the class, but be honest about the skill level needed whilst highlighting the benefits.  If they decide to spend a few seasons in a GP before stepping up to the challenge of a Merlin, they are far more likely to stick with it.

Dave, 

You're right, especially about elitism and I agree that nothing looks worse to a newcomer than "My fleet's better than yours".

I guess the point I'm making is that people should be encouraged to try as many boats as possible and get a balanced view, rather than be put off by the rhetorical "Oh you don't want to get one of those" attitude which seems to be so prevalent.

Each year Yachts and yachtin do a review of boats and rate them according to difficulty.  By recollection, Merlins are considered more difficult than Enterprises.  But maybe this is to do with the control options rather than tippiness.

Strikes me than GPs are more difficult to sail than Merlins.  Fancy not having a spinnaker chute!

Mirrors are more stable but very uncomfortable on the bum.  Dont put 14st on centreboard to right them.

29er.  Yuk!! not at all stable to my mind and age. Good youth boats though.

I built and sailed E7952 when I was just a lad - actually won prizes in those days too! In those days Ents were deadly down wind in a blow, Mae West was your saviour. My old Mk 12 showed similar tendences, modern Merlins are really nice, comfortable and smooth and she spinnaker improves balance.  Try one.

You don't just sail a Merlin-Rocket, you fall in love with it.
Merlin's are responsive..........they go faster when you are doing it right and ......they go slowly when you are doing it wrong !!
Go on....do it....enjoy real sailing......get a Merlin !!!

A lot of this is to do with the difference between initial stability and absolute stability.  Merlins actually ARE tippy if you mean initial stability - the amount the boat heels for a change in where the weight is, at rest or moving slowly.  In light winds I will be shifting my bulk by an inch or two in or out to keep the boat level.  Absolute stability is how far away the point of no return before you capsize is from the level, Merlins are MUCH more forgiving on this one - I have recovered several times from a 3-sail broach without actually going in, even though there's been a lot of water over the gunwale.  I think it's the initial impression of tippiness that puts people off, but as well as GP14's and Wayfarers I had sailed Fireflies and a thing called an Otter, both round bilged and not that stable.  Ent's have more initial stability but are not that friendly dead downwind in a blow from my limited experience

Interestingly it was a former 505 world champion who told me he found merlins unstable when stationary when he sailed them as a student circa 1970.  My wife is a willing and able crew but rather nervous and I am looking for something with a little more stability than a 29er when stationary.  You are right Andrew, the Ent requires a combination of finesse and bottle downwind with nearly all the power in an oversized main and a very broachable hull shape. I think we'll cope!

If you do find the boat a little "tippy" you could always tie a bottle to the top of the mast... this will prevent the "turn-turtle"

Depends what's in the bottle

Maybe it was a typo

tipsy?

GROOOOAAANNN

Once they are unsidedown they aren't tippy at all. Just a little damp!!!

The Merlin’s not tippy.  Even Tom Stewart can sail one.

Easy!

As an absolute beginner to the class I sail an NSM2 (3280). I haven't capsized yet though came close a few times. But I have a huge smile every time I sail. My last boat was a Mirror.