Help for some short people

02/08/2009 18:28:36
We had our first sail in Prologue today and a great time was had... except...

It was a peachy F2-3 and we were getting a nice bit of roll on for the tacks but would then struggle coming out the other side. Basically Hannah is just over five ft and I'm not that much taller and we both found it hard climbing up to the new windward side deck. It got better with practice but we just arnt big enough to get there in one step and there is nothing to get a foot hold on in between.

Its an early Winder boat and I'm sure this cant be a new problem so what do other people do to help with this.

Ian and Hannah

02/08/2009 19:58:21
If you are short, many people have a step built in. I did in Snakey B. Whilst it is obviously easier to do at construction, I am sure Mr Winder or other talented boat builders can retrofit a step in a Mk1 Winder C/T.

The crew should have less of a problem, as they can use the jib-car track as a 'step'.

As you noticed, it gets easier with practice. It is a matter of getting your feet position right and timing.

Good luck. Try practicing not in a race situation, just trying to get the timing right, and don't 'over' roll.

03/08/2009 08:43:47
If you have a mainsheet hoop it does form a convenient handhold!

I'm forbidden from removing it as my wife finds it so useful1

Colin (3387)

04/08/2009 08:04:59
Thanks guys

I like the step idea... but dont have the cash to give to the pro's.

Does any one have any advice on what to make such a thing out of and how to fix it.

You are right about the hoop, it does help us get in and across but doesnt help with the big climb up the other side :-(

Would just a couple of lines of progrip help... I cant help but thing that they would just peal off in use but it might work?


04/08/2009 08:10:56
Chris M
You're not looking at big money to put a pair of steps in.

04/08/2009 09:03:41
Granny Bars
Being short and new to the class I kept slipping and head butting the side dedck. Bars from Winder made from ply £90 excluding fitting. I made a tempplate from a well known modern boat, purchased hard wood and epoxied in my MK4 Winder for all less than £20. You can custom shape and locate to suit your requirements, my granny bars are slightly higher than those fitted in most Winders. The crews bar make a useful bum prop for lightwind spinny work.
When fixing with epoxy rotate boat so upper fillet is horizontal, doing one side at a time to prevent epoxy fillet slumping, to do under side fillet rotate boat onto edge and do lower pair and then repeat process for the other side.

It is a great mode and probably the best thing I have done to my boat , transforms high wind sailing for me . Strongly recommend the mod, dont know how people sail the winders in lumpy conditions without them! But then I am new to the class!

04/08/2009 09:38:30
Andy Hay - Enchantment 3386
Mix some colloidal silica in with the microballoons in the fillet mix to stop the stuff from sagging away. You should be able to get the fillet mix to hold on even a vertical surface if you get the mix right.

Preparation is everything though.

04/08/2009 10:48:54
Thanks for the input... I don't suppose someone could send me some pictures can they so I have some idea of their size and placement.

I guess I would also need to scrap off the paint, or textured surface on the inside before fitting... is there an easy (power tool) way of doing that without damaging the glass underneath?


04/08/2009 11:50:42
Andy Hay - Enchantment 3386
Mask off the area then use a Dremel to take off the epoxy coating / paint. Might be worth having a vacuum cleaner sucking the dust away so you can see what you are doing. I guess that you want to just expose, but not cut through, the top glass fibre layer. Always wear protection (eyes and face mask are a must, other types of protection optional, but ear plugs are good for stopping dust getting into your lug hole).

Before gluing your granny bars in place, make sure that the area is spotlessly clean otherwise the epoxy will not stick as well as it will have too.

Note that some people are sensitive to epoxy (especially the dust), so take care and wear gloves, full arm shirts, etc. Shower off after clearing away the dust to reduce itching, etc.

Always read the label.

04/08/2009 11:59:04
Granny Bars are great
Good advice from Andy re Fillet mixture. I shall be picking his brains at the Nationals because I could never get the mix stiff enough to stop the sagging. I did end up with a very neat job , better than many, an amateur always has time on his side but lacks experience. Do a trial on scrap wood out side of the boat first! Granny bars are great

04/08/2009 12:00:54
Granny Bars are great
I will take some photos and try to post

04/08/2009 12:02:25
Richard S
Check out this photo of Rob Holroyd's new boat under construction. It gives an idea. Many trapeze boats use similar "push up" bars but they often tend to be triangular in cross section (which would give you a slightly bigger glueing surface).
04/08/2009 12:46:52
Garry R
I have found that a dremel type drill is one of the most useful restoration tools I possess.  The little circular saw cutter can be used to run along a curved line before chiselling so that it doesn't all splinter away across the old glue line.  Great for running around old screws which you can't shift or the heads are knackered - feel justlike a drilling dentist (though not as highly paid!!). Removal of small high spots with the grinder if you are trying to get a piece of ply to fit flush in a rebate - a really multiple tool and with a size that lets you get right in at those tricky places.

04/08/2009 13:11:36
By your comment "Would just a couple of lines of progrip help... I cant help but thing that they would just peal off in use but it might work?"

It also sounds like you grip paint has worn out, which is to be expected of 3581. We had Chambulls (3580) re-gripped last year, not a cheap excecise if done professionally, as all the old grip has to be rubbed back, but if you are going to fit steps, then it would be a good time as any to think about re-gripping, as you are going to have to remove some and then you are going to have to re-grip the steps anyway.

04/08/2009 17:45:36
Hmmm: I still have vivid memories of Jon S. flying over to the new widward side after the tack and biting the gunwhale with his teeth! In all honesty, with time and practice the occurences of it were dramatically reduced and we never really considered re-gripping or putting steps into the boat.

04/08/2009 19:46:04
By all accounts you guys are quite a bit bigger than us :-) but I do take on board what you are saying... we have got better in just the short time we have sailed her so far but if i can do something that will make it full proof, cheaply, then I'd like to.

The step idea sounds good to me just a question of how big and were to put them... I don't fancy the idea of changing them once fitted as described!

Ian and Hannah

04/08/2009 20:40:37
Fairly easy to work out where. Winders are strong enough for you to sit in on the trolley, assuming you are not 16 stone. Get some one to hold the boat one side and perch on the gunnel (not hiked, but bum just on) and see where your heels are. Or use a tape measure to acheive the same approximation.

06/08/2009 16:36:32
Rod & Jo Sceptical
When first sailing 2988 after years of being accustomed to 1620, we found that after the tack we tended to sit down in the middle of the boat, having failed to cross over far enough.

08/08/2009 20:20:35
Ian, if you pop down to Whitstable, most of the Winder Merlins have steps, although these were put in at the build stage. 

I had both 3442 a wodden JT Canterbury Tales and 3658 a Winder Mark 4 and neither had steps. In the Winder I learnt to use the thrawt moulding to step up and my crews tended to use the jib cars.


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