Salcombe Damage Repair!!!!!!

18/07/2009 13:26:58
James 3403
After having a superb week at salcombe unfortunatly the Fridge bent its mas on wednesday in the gusty conditions.
It has bent round the deck at the same point as before.
I have some choices know seeing as this is the 2nd time that this has happened.
1. do i just claim on the insurance and replace the mast again for same thing and continue with what ive got
or
2. Do i deck step the boat and use the orginal mast and jus cut it at
the point where it is bent and use that mast

My money is abit tight at the mo as i am signed on
plus has anyone got scottys number to give him a ring!!!!

Any advice would be great

18/07/2009 16:04:53
Chris
Insurance job if its creased it may be possible to straighten it he not. Phil's number is 07973 720 732.

18/07/2009 16:45:34
Ancient Geek
It might just fatigue break if you straighten it again, an alternative which will leave you with a very marginally heavier but much stronger mast than before is to cut it taking out the damaged bit assuming its no more than say three to six inches find an old bit of D section and cut to the right length, then find a foot longer bit of C section and cut off the luff groove bit and you have an exact sleeve for a D section bang the thing together maybe with a bit of araldite or similar epoxy and if you have a pop riveter a couple of rivets on each side of the new section (Self tappers if not.) from memory all done in an hours, finding the bits of spare section may take longer! But most dinghy parks have a few broken masts!
Good luck.

18/07/2009 17:07:16
Andrew M
The alternatives are really either to repair/replace what you have or go the whole hog on the deck stepping.  If money is tight I would replace.  You have been going pretty well with the hog stepped mast, if it is an insurance job then there is no real point in repairing the mast, from what I saw it is a definite write-off and though you can sleeve it the insurers will pay for a replacement.

Deck stepping is a lot more than just cutting off a bit of mast and plonking it on the deck. 2 things will add greatly to the expense. You need proper structural work to make sure the area around the shroud attachment and new lowers is able to take the increased loading. There is also a significant outlay on fittings, which need to be up to the job coping with the static load of the shroud (250kg approx) and really 3x that for shock loading in a wipe out. To replicate the systems in Heaven Sent will actually require 19 blocks of various sorts, 15 of which are high load and all need to be ball-bearing. Ok, you may be able to re-use some of your existing systems, but I didn't count the jib halyard or the hoop traveller, just the shroud, lowers and puller! In my view what you definitely don't want to do is to convert the boat in a half-baked way, at present you have a boat that has the rig control systems of its day all working well and a structurally sound hull and when you point it in the right direction you are going pretty quickly in a competitive fleet. It's worth looking at the relative cost of deck stepping your existing boat against selling and buying a more recent one that was built that way.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoyed your week as much as we did!

18/07/2009 18:26:17
Ancient Geek
I was assuming you'd wish in these uncertain times to keep your no claims record to keep your premium down.

18/07/2009 18:55:50
Smokin
He doesn't have a no claims record the mast was just 12 months old having done the same thing at Earlswood last year!

18/07/2009 19:49:35
Chris Martin
We have a case stepped m3 that may or may not fit, it may be very slightly short. If you give me a measurement from lower band to the heel i'll check for you.

Obviously though as we've all said claiming on the the insurance is the best option. deck stepping is not really.

20/07/2009 11:34:12
James 3403
the bend is the mast is  at deck level and has put a crease in the mast where it has pushed against the mast.

i am still undecided at the mo. so will mill it ova

Thanks everyone for there advice and opinions.

20/07/2009 12:22:13
Andy Hay - Enchantment 3386
We got Kev Driver to sort the deck step out. Lovely job but expensive. I echo the earlier sentiment, if this it the way you want to go, do it properly.

We have an old Procter section, not sure about which one (Chris Rathbone, can you advise?) which is spare since we went carbon. Was going to trim it down to give us a tin spare ...

Actually, I am more interested in why the rig has now bent twice in the same place. Not enough lowers or rig tension? Resolve that problem (probably for no cost whatsoever) and stop this happening again.

20/07/2009 13:26:45
James 3403
Not sure as to why is has happened again but it went in the same way as before. into windward with the spinnaker up this time but the crew was sat in front of the hoop.

i have got any lowers but do have a mast ram.we did have the kicker of at the time though but that is what i was told to do!!!!

20/07/2009 14:00:35
Chris Rathbone
Andy,

It was a Proctor D

Chris

20/07/2009 14:09:57
Andy Hay - Enchantment 3386
Ta Chris.

Two options to stop it happening again:

1. Support the mast more - rig up some lowers, ensure that the mast is a tight fit at deck level, increase the rig tension, push out the spreaders a little more
2. Go to a stiffer mast or sleeve the one you have to give it more strength low down

What mast have you got anyway?

20/07/2009 14:37:46
Andrew M
You must have broken the mast because it inverted.  Your mast ram does not prevent this as it pushes not pulls.  Lowers will not help.  Kicker tension will push the gooseneck forwards and will help, also enough shroud tension.  If you had eased the shrouds and kicker in the conditions we had on the Wednesday then don't in the future!

20/07/2009 20:44:43
Martin
I saw this happen from 50 yards, they were going like a train and then the bow went under the whole boat then lifted up and sort of fell forward as it went in, to be honest I think any mast would have sucummed in just the way numerous carbon ones did on Friday.

22/07/2009 07:55:36
James 3403
Is there such a thing as a Carbonfibre centreboard stepped mast?

Are they any good and are they worth fitting to my boat???

Any ideas?

22/07/2009 08:58:29
KM 2825
Having just had some dealings with SuperSpars, I'd say they are about the most helpful people you could find, and would certainly make you a mast of whatever configuration you want - ordered through Speed or P&B. 
Maybe have another think about Andrew M's info in post 4 - wise words, and a carbon mast usually means new sails as well.
As for repairs, I've made an hog stepped M7 mast from a deck stepped one by sleeving it internally and then putting a carbon wrap around it and it's as tough as old boots after a quite few capsizes,although it may get sold with the Phantom Kipper I'm selling, and I also have a bare case stepped M2 if you wanted to transfer your fittings to that. I think we're not too far from you.

22/07/2009 09:05:42
Andrew M
There are some vintage boats that have a carbon hog-stepped mast but there are problems with wall strength at deck level.  It wouldn't have survived any better than your alloy one.  Mervyn Allen has one but he would not have been sailing in those conditions!

22/07/2009 09:14:36
Robert Harris
'Passing Cloud' no.1047 has a hog stepped carbon mast and survived Salcombe unharmed. She even came 8th on the quiet day!

22/07/2009 09:36:46
Ancient Geek
Freudian slip Robert! 1047 was your Mk XI Grey Goose! 1079 is that legend that is Passing cloud.

Non the less fopm where I sit hog/keel stepped masts give a lot less bother in breakage terms and from observations are easier to live with, but the cognisenti seem to think not as fast.

22/07/2009 11:25:43
Robert Harris
Must be me age! 

Our Y W Cadet 'Punch' had sail number no. 1047 eight years before my second M/R 'Grey Goose' also had it.

27/07/2009 14:22:34
Martin
What you doing then James?

27/07/2009 14:22:59
James 3403
i have ordered a new mast for the fridge.

gone for a replacement mast so dnt have to spend to much money on the boat and to get it back onto the water

fingers crossed for it to be ready for bala august regatta

27/07/2009 17:05:19
Peter Scott
Having seen that wonderful sequence of photo's at Earlswood when the first mast bent I am guessing that it was much the same scenario at Salcombe which caused grief - ie a big whacker of a gust and down went the bow. If you find yourself in those conditions again it will be handy to get the crew behind the thwart early on and then you can move back and forth to keep the trim right. At least then you are both behind the thwart and the creww is not pinned in by boom, hoop and mainsheet.

28/07/2009 10:35:33
JohnB (3404)
Good call James, glad you'll be back on the water soon ! Keep those shrouds tight !

We only had one submarine moment, mostly the opposite problem due to lardy helm.

28/07/2009 10:53:15
Andrew M
We must have had very much the same sort of wipe-out on the Friday and the Superspars mast survived yet again.  I'm sure it is inversion that breaks the mast when this happens and I have seen some arrangements on a mast ram to prevent it - you need the ram to pull as well as push the mast and all it would need is like a limiter to prevent the lower part of the mast going back beyond straight.  This must be possible, and as above, don't let the shrouds off when it is really howling and have a stopper knot on the mainsheet to prevent the boom hitting the shroud as again this will pull the gooseneck back.

28/07/2009 11:05:15
James 3403
i did scream at the crew about 4 times to move behind the hoop but i reacon he frooze and stayed pinned in front of the hoop and braised himself which wasnt usefull!!! i did later on in the race get him behind the hoop and the boat was alot better. 

i was mainly disapointed and annoyed that it has happened again, only 12months after the 1st one.

28/07/2009 14:38:05
Mike Anslow
Not surprised if your crew froze, James.  If you will sail the Refridgerator!

28/07/2009 18:03:50
Chris M
Perhaps the front needs defrosting.

28/07/2009 21:43:33
James 3403
All very funny thank you so much for it

Just asked martin if i could borrow his rocket this weekend but i didnt get an answer.

i wonder why!!!!!!!!!

29/07/2009 10:53:08
Martin
James
I have a few little jobs to do before it goes on the water again, jib cam cleat springs, traveller lines, spinaker halyard to sort and I need to sort the shroud adjusters as they have just eaten their second set of jib sheets in 9 months.
You will have to sail your laser, the fact that you have broken two Merlin masts and a laser boom in the past 12 months has nothing to do with it.... Honest!

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