...just been up to Queen Mary...it was Force 3 and it seemed pretty wild...forecast for Saturday is Force 5..too late to bottle out as I have paid me money...eeeeek!

oh holey crap r u joking? bet il capsize about 3 times before the start prob wont even finish

...not joking, the lady who took my money, laughed at me! Expecting 300 boats...

Force 5! Greaatttt, Dobbie and I will be larding it :)

Ross

'For a limited time only crewing at an open meeting near you.' Catch it while you can if you want a good laugh!

Hang on kids - 16 mph isn't exactly warp factor 'Lard' n'est pas commander Ross... ?

Aye but it's the lithium crystals.
Or the disintigrating alluminium space frame?

The thrills and spills will be fun to watch as we lounge lizards watch a few mere mortals battle it out with the crunch of carbon (Ouch) in upwards of force 5 - 6 or was it 7. Worth a look in the morning. I'll walk the dogs instead!!!!!!!!

What time does the carnage start, wasn’t immediately obvious from their website?

Latest look at the weather websites suggests that the wind will be dropping significantly through the day after peaking at over 20kts in the mid-morning to just 15kts at 12:00 continuing to drop as the race goes on.  You will have your work cut out catching the Cadets and 420's I think, but sounds like a good breeze.  My boat is having cosmetic surgery at the minute but I might well go and have a look with my camera, so if you are contemplating rolling in with the kite up please can you do it close to the breakwater thing in the middle

Current wind at queen mary is 31 mph on their site. The insurers will be so happy :)

Just been up there and in between the white horse even the windsurfers were having fun remaining upright in some of the gusts.  Might blow through in the night though...

Don't talk yourselves out of this, lads and lassies!! Its only a bit of wind, nothing that some Rennies won't cure. 

Let's make a big class turnout here and take home some choccies!  The more the merrier, we will be there from about 9.30, so see you then....

GGGGGGGGGG

Forecast is big gales up north like wot where I is.
Should be strong darn sarf. Use your old set of sails.

Nonsense, new sails make the most difference when it's windy.

Storm Force tonight - what will it die down to 2 morrow - a gentle 6 or 7?

a)Rubbish - it's windy but not even a gale outside now (5 miles from QM) but about F6
b)Forecast still much as before for a F4-5 tomorrow afternoon
c)If you are that worried and want a fat crew I will take my drysuit to QM in the morning in case needed!!!
d)You would have to be a bit desperate

OK Andrew, would you lke to come round and fix my fence panels, gusts were hitting 60 mph + in this bit of Surrey and the indicators are still reading 30 Mph at 6 am at Heathrow.

It got a lot windier in the night Alan!  Forecast still says it will be sailable but probably not dropping below F5 till the race finishes

Wind peaked at 47 mph but now down to arround 30 and forecast to drop have fun

Hum just watched in the end, our masts are too precious

Was pretty surprised at the race commitee starting the race, why didnt they just defer till the foillowing Saturday. i know people travel a long distance but thought the race was pretty ridiculous
Also thought we still havent a prayer on handicap against 29 niners and fireballs in trapezing conditions

33 finishers.
130 Entries, but not those many starters, maybe 80 started.
Probably 300 boats bought on site.

I expect the race office has lost QM the a volume of advance entries in future.

Self correction 129 entries, as 130 points would indicate for non finishers.

I would have thought it would be virtually impossible to rearrange - the organisational issues, organising volunteers, extra rescue boats etc etc at such short notice.

I think just as many people would be p****d off at the race being postponed as with running it. There's never a right answer in these situations, you can never please everyone.

I've heard it all now Col, a Merlin sailor complaining about his handicap! Get real, in 95% of weather conditions, a merlin is right up there in the top 5 best boats you could possibly sail on handicap. Above 20 knots, trapeze boats will obviously be at an advantage, but from 6-18 knots, Merlins have an awesome handicap.

I think if 35 boats were capable of finishing, then the race was viable and you should put your hands up and admit they deserved it and were better on the day. In my experience, re-arranging events always results in a greatly reduced entry at the re-run anyway, and is never very satisfactory.

Here's a pic of Andy and I out at the Bloody Mary. I don't look very happy in it do I. Sadly we retired with only 30 mintues to go in about 30th place at the time.

As Andy said it was one of those races when you looked forward to the beats as the off wind bits were rather more than just exciting. We did manage about 4 capsizes in the end.

Well done to all who finished.

Ross

Shortly to be back at the correct end of a Merlin

dammit if i only i was aloud ta go out and break my boat!

Ross .. Photographic perching evidence! Caught red handed. 

(To be fair .. I think that was taken before the start)

It certainly made for awesome watching!  A lot of Merlins were entered but only 2 braved the conditions at all - the Fireballs put on a stunning display of boathandling.  Anyone launching and setting spinnies out of a bag on the foredeck in those conditions is an awesome sailor, & making it all look so controlled without the rocking and banging about.  I was disappointed that the Merlin big shots didn't give the conditions a go, also very relieved I had a cast-iron excuse for not sailing as my boat is being refurbished!!

Fully agree that the fireballs were terific maybe im just getting soft down here.

In response Andrew M's posting. Whilst I am far from a sailing hot shot, I had entered the BM but took the decision not to sail given the worsening conditions. Whilst it may be great entertainment to witness good boathandling skills, of which there was plenty, the overriding factor in all circumstances has to be one of (a) safety, and (b) ability. The two work in tandem and personally I believe not only myself but all the other competitors who decided not to sail made the right call.

There's always next year!

..I bottled it!

A useful benchmark, and I used it on Mark & Ben, if the crew of the boat can't physically step the mast without help and without hiding in the lee of the clubhouse, then it is probably a bit windy.

I think it took 4 people to step a RS400 mast, which later came back in 2 bits.

If it takes 4 people to step a 400 mast, how many does it take to step a 49er in that wind????

And yes Andy that pic was before the start so wasn't hiking yet :)

Do all dinghy sailors suffer from arrested develolopment?
If they want to drive all yacht racing premiums higher than they are then keep committing nautical hari kari. It's not even macho to put the lives of those who may have to rescue you at unreasonable risk. Its silly and gets our sport a bad name. I thought the M?R class might have grown up.

I think there were about 20 Merlins on trailers and only 2 ventured onto the water - so a slight over generalisation when you ask 
'Do all dinghy sailors suffer from arrested development?'

to answer could be 'no, not all, maybe 10%!'

So are you calling Chips and Vyv irresponsible? Do they suffer from "arrested development"? 

I'd call them very good sailors. 

Some of the sailors who turned up and decided the conditions were too much for their boats or their skill level and chose not to sail will have made excellent and correct decisions. More than a few non-starters will have been capable of getting round, but were perhaps towards the back of the queue when they were handing out testosterone! Again, fair enough. Any sailor has to make his own decision on whether to sail in challenging conditions and it should be an entirely personal choice.

Dinghy racing is totally feasible in 25-35 knot conditions given the right amount of skill and a good boat. I can see the day though, when race officers start abandoning races early at anything over 20 knots for fear of litigation, and this would be a shame.

I say well done the race officer, well done the rescue crews and well done Chips and the other finishers and also those who had the guts to have a go.

Our main concern was not to break expensive kit for what is in the scheme of things a relatively unimportant, fun event. I would be first to concede that Chips and Vyv sailed very well, but as Sales Director for Selden Masts, would Chips really be worrying about the potential cost of any damage to his rig .....??

Like I said, it's a personal choice whether or not to go out. Not wanting to break expensive kit is obviously a major factor in any decision, but will vary from class to class. I'd guess Merlin or 49er rigs are more fragile than Fireball or 470 rigs. It'd also be a personal thing again, depending on your circumstances. The top sailors would probably value a day's heavy wind practice higher than the risk to their mast.  I'm pretty sure the 420 and 470 sailors will have been aware that there was a chance the rig could come down, but it was worth it to get some practice in those conditions in what was a safe inland environment.  

Why not have a spare mast to use when it's windy or for an unimportant event? Maybe an alloy one or a patched up carbon job. Keep your racing mast at home, put up the spare rig and go and have a blast without worrying.  The spare rig may not be perfect or have exactly the right bend, but you should be able to get it 90% right and go sailing.  It's also quite a good psychological feeling when you bring out the best rig for the nationals or any important event.

I used to sail a 470, and this is precisely what we did.

With respect it is not only a personal choice one has a duty to others 
1. Not to get ones class a reputation for being "turn out and turn over" or gear breakers because that increases EVERYBODIES PREMIUMS!
2. remember those who are putting themselves in harms way to protect you.
3. Increasingly no regattas Internationally are run in winds over 25kn. As the recently retired Paul Henderson ISAF Chairman put it, sailing in high winds may be fun but 
           a its dangerous.
           b one can't race one survives
           c Health and safety! 
I do not want to be a kill joy but that's the way the world is going.
God may be working on a simpler project he's certainly taken his eye off the ball on his current one!That much we can all agree on.

I can hardly believe what i'm reading !

- putting rescuers lives at risk at Queen Mary...
- Not racing in above 25 knotsbecause it isnt a race in those   conditions just survival!

I despair the nanny state has fully infiltrated the Merlin Class - pathetic

On a slightly more costructive note....

You may not take a foiling moth out in 25 knots because it could be damaging and potentially dangerous (but it should be the individuals choice) a race committee would probably not race this class in such conditions - A 420 however only starts to get going in over 20 knots.  

Point being the Bloody Mary is a pursuit race - should it be cancelled because the most fragile or overcavased  boats dont fancy it? - Not in my opinion that is where individuals have to make their own decision based on their knowledge of their own ability and their own boat.  Dont spoil the fun for others you miserable lot!!!

If you are scared to go out because it's too windy, be a man (or woman) and admit it.  Don't start making excuses about putting other peoples lives at risk.  It's pathetic.

When you have been a member of lifeboat crew you can have a say I suggest you learn respect for the water even or perhaps especially at inland waters.

Greatest respect for the lifeboat crew but wonder what their relevance is to a thread about a fairly breezy Bloody Mary ? - we are not talking life threatening conditions here just a bit too windy for some/most people and some classes! Why should those skilled enough to sail safely in the conditions have to pander to the lowest common denominator? 

On your logic there would be no Vendee Globe Ellen McCarther etc etc why stop there - sailing is inherantly dangerous so lets ban it altogether....

When I said I was disappointed not to see more Merlins give the conditions a go that was true, but I accept the argument that it is not worth breaking your boat in a race that does not carry any significance for competing boats and which you are unlikely to win because of the Merlin handicap.  Having said that, though the conditions were very vigorous 32 boats did finish and I applaud the race committee for having the courage to start the race.  I think there is also an element of peer influence on this one and about 90% of the fleet decided not to sail.  The wind did actually drop off significantly from the howling gale of early morning, which was not sailable, but did not drop as much as the forecast or as early.  If I had had my boat there I would not have gone out, but Pat B and John B have been out competing in as much wind to my knowledge.  The additional factor was the cold and if you had been in a couple of times that would have been very energy-sapping.  I don't think a Merlin rig is inherently more fragile than some of the others out there - 29er's? but it wasn't just the Merlins that failed to finish - the only 49er didn't stay out long nor the 505 or even Nat 12 so it wasn't exactly a class disgrace.

As one of the two boats that did brave the conditions I am really suprised at the negative tone of this thread. A lot of those commenting don't know what it was like out there and so should not assume and judge on what it was actually like. I took the opinion that it would be a valuable learning experiance for myself and my crew Catherine (who was very brave, being inexperienced in such conditions). Although both merlins did retire neither were broken or injured, just tired and had had their £10 worth of fun! I emphasise that it is up to each sailor to decide if they and there boat are suitable for the conditions and if they decide they are up for it and so do the race commitee they shouldn't be given grieve for 'risking other peoples lives' because we did not.
To summerise, the conditions were windy but managable. My boat, even with a maximum sized rig and rudder designed for the slow pace of river sailing survived. My crew, although got slightly cold enjoyed the day and was glad we went out. The rescue crew who were finally needed after the 4th capsize were very good and happy to help and I personally loved it and would do it again.
Stop critisising, we sail for fun and my crew and I had exactly that on Saturday perfectly safely. We even went sailing the next day on the river at Tamesis.

Well done Ollie and crew!!  

If you dont want to sail no problem and no disrespect - just respect others right to make their own decisions too.

I have to say it wasn't the wind speed that was so much the problem out there (Weymouth open last year was way more windy and that was at sea), it were the gusts that made it tricky sailing. Having said that Andy and I got through most of the race before we decided we were too tried to go on. Considering Andy hasn't sailed much for a year, and I don't really belong in the front end of the boat we survived fairly well, 4 capsizes. We even tried to use the spinaker until we found it was rigged wrongly :(

From what I saw I think there were only 3 broken rigs, a RS400, laser and 49er. The 49er was always going to go in that wind!

PS Ollie I have your top at home, all cleaned. Will try and get it up to Ranelagh or meeting shortly after that. I kept me warm, thanks.

Ross

Another question, will the insurance go up on Ally masts, now carbon don't seem to break any more and the only breakage a saw was on an ally mast, which looked like rivet corrosion around the spreaders, something that carbon wouldn't get?

When was the last carbon mast broken, anyone? Have all the faults been ironed out by natural selection, or is it just that I'm not aware?

No thee should be NO singlehanded racing at sea, the first rule of seamanship being to keep a look out at all times and think of the cost to the australkian and royal Navies rescuing tony Bullimore. Has he paid the 5 million I wonder?

I cant actually believe some of what i'm reading here and have trouble taking it seriously when the poster is too scared to reveal who he really is.

I think it would take rather more wind than there was at the Bloody Mary to make conditions life threatening for the rescue craft and commitee boats - indeed if it was racing would most certainly have been cancelled as it would have been impossible to have a start line let alone get the fleet off shore!

When we sign on at an event we sign that the club cannot be held responsible for injury, damage, death, alien abduction etc however caused.

As for stopping racing at 20kts is that not when sailing begins?

Remember we're not talking hurricanes here!

Not going afloat simply because I think I cannot win in the conditions is something I would never do.

Well done to all those who sailed on Saturday, and i believe that each individual should make up his or her own mind if it is safe to sail, just as the race officer should only cancel/postpone if he believes that the rescue facilities would not be able to cope, these are both judgement calls, and therefore there will always be someone who disagrees.Please lets not have race officers or competitors worried about the possibility of being sued for sailing a boat race, after all its meant to be fun.

OH MY GOD! guys will you just chill!! The event has gone and has happend, people who sailed were brave and it was their choice they wanted to sail, and its up to them if they wanted to damage there boat or whatever. I am sure they were aware of the dangeour. But to be honest who cares, its sailing at the end of the day 
and why do you sail? 
to learn and to have fun and to win stuff
and thats what people did they went out there and had fun! It isnt against the law! I am also sure they learnt how to deal the gusty winds! So what is the problem ?? Just chill!

Chill? I've only just warmed up from Saturday. If sailing in that wasn't illegal, it should have been. Foxes have protection, why not Merlin crews? Fun? - Hundreds could have died, a whole generation of dinghy sailors wiped out. It would be 2100 before we won another Olympic medal. Thank God my helm got trapped in a cubicle in the QMSC gents - apparently, the lock jammed.

Judgement call? - it were more like Judgement Day...

you are all being over dramatic

I'd agree with deary me, it's totally up to personal preference/confidence.

Although I didnt go to the bloody Mary, I sailed new years day in a merlin in Salcombe (I know its a very different area compared to being so open, but this is simply an example). It started as a force five, increasing to a steady force 6. I was still pissed and tired, very good new year, and Dave townend was helming. As many of you know he isn't sailing the boats much these days unfortunately. So we are both well out of practice, me having not crewed for around 2 years.

I greatly enjoyed the sail, we didnt capsize and there were no realy close calls. In the fleet were a couple of ex world champions in different classes who had some trouble. In the end we came first over the line, 2nd on handicap to Will Henderson, N12. Possibly would have been first, but we lost the top batton halfway up the second beat, so control was a less.

Anyway, point is it's all about enjoying it your own way, if you feel confident in ability and arent about to jeapordise others..sail

i agrree

Dare I say.....storm in a tea cup!?

....not even

At least not a storm with a cock-up!

But one with some tip-ups it appears!!!

That was a really good thread!  Glad I wasn't alone in my views!

It was windy on the saturday, even in Birmingham.
Carbon does break.
Five Easypieces to Alan Jackson.

Or a Storm Cock? (Missle Thrush to you non David Attenborough/Peter Scott/Keith Shackleton - (Buy Shakewell at Sea a good book!) fans.