MERLIN ROCKET FORUM

Topic : Classic Mini Series - Its here!!

Hi Everyone,
 
Following on from the discussions on this forum, emails sent to me in response to my previous post, and committee discussion, we can now reveal that the following events will comprise the Classic Mini-Series.
 
Banbury (19th April)
Rutland (4th May)
Weymouth (27th and 28th June)
Parkstone (19th September - Saturday - open classification only)
Draycote Inlands (17th and 18th October)
 
Five events - three to count.  If only four are sailed, still three to count.
 
We really hope that Classic (and vintage) boats will try to come to these events, where we know from the survey that there will be a strong core of Classics already intending to attend, so hopefully a few more will identify these events as good ones to come to.  Hopefully lots of you will qualify, and we'll need lots of prizes.  Glassware for the first three as a minimum.
 
Qualifying boats are those 3571 or older.
 
If we manage to source a "Classic Tiller Trophy" then this will be awarded to the first Classic or Vintage boat in the overall Silver Tiller Series.  So still well worth trying to qualify for that one too!! 
 
Please note the open water category for Parkstone will now be on the Saturday, and the sea event will be on the Sunday.  This is due to anticipated congestion in the harbour on the Sunday.  One of our races out at sea will count for Barts Bash.  (This is a change to the previously published fixtures). 
 
Looking forward to seeing how this will pan out - hopefully successfully, please spread the word (favourably).
 
And then all to be evaluated at the end of the season, with a view to any necessary improvements for next season.
 
Fran Gifford
Chair, MROA
07810446377 
 
 


Posted: 20/03/2015 13:11:05
By: Frances Gifford
Great work thanks for all your support


Posted: 20/03/2015 18:56:30
By: Gareth Griffiths NHRC
So how does the scoring system work?
If you finish 12th in the main event but are the 3rd Classic Minin Series Qualifier do you score 12 points or 3 points?
Why is it all south of Birmingham? 
Hardly fair on the older boats of Hollingworth, Blithfield or North Wales or other Northeren clubs and owners such as new to the class 3508, some of whom had indicated on the poll that they wanted to play but not necesarily do the Inlands or south coast sea event.


Posted: 23/03/2015 21:57:27
By: FBS
Looks like they have taken the events with the maximum number of potential entries based on the recent survey. I think that is fair enough but it would be impossible to please everyone. I would have liked to have seen more than one restricted event for example but I accept everone will have a different view. If the older boats make every effort to turn out at other ST meetings then this will help the committee fine tune it for next year. We should be pleased the committee have listened and taken action.
Dave
 


Posted: 24/03/2015 09:10:42
By: DaveC
A quick look at the questionaire that was sent round a few weeks back shows only 11 respondents the vast majority from the South.
 
Perhaps that is why?


Posted: 24/03/2015 09:26:29
By: David Villiers-Child
I did contemplate completing the survey but since my boat was built in 1969, I don't think that the meetings under discussion would suit. :)  Good idea to involve the older boats at such events


Posted: 24/03/2015 10:13:22
By: Chris Rathbone
Hi Chris,
 
I wouldn't let boat age put you off, last year John Bell won the Tamesis Open in a boat much older than yours. The  restricted events would be fine for you. My boat was designed in 1974 and built in 1979. :-)
 
Dave


Posted: 24/03/2015 10:17:12
By: DaveC
Miles james and me were chatting about arranging a Niane vs Steppenwolf dual at Blithfield...

Hopefully a few more will turn up


Posted: 24/03/2015 12:22:19
By: Gareth Griffiths NHRC
Yes, Gareth and I are going to meet at Blithfield, and it will probably not just be the two of us. Why there? It's in the middle, about 3 hour drive for each of us. It took me 6 hours to drive to Calshot and onto Lymington last Sunday and that was without a boat on the back. Events down south are just too far away.
 
I'd need a day to get there, some time to wake up, then the sailing, then another day to get back. So a one or two day event becomes 3 or 4 days away,just not feasible.
 
As much as I congratulate the MROA committee for recognising the need for older boat events.
 
Holding them down south is prohibitive to quite a lot of us, especially those in Scotland! 
 
 
 


Posted: 24/03/2015 13:32:12
By: Miles
Frances

Do you think, if we can encourage a few more Merlins of similar vintage to attend Blithfield, that we could add that to the list too???



Posted: 25/03/2015 17:30:19
By: Gareth Griffiths NHRC
If anyone in the 'North' wants to race but has ruled it out on the basis of distance, might I suggest you get along to Kielder Water for their May Bank Holiday Weekend? Its a 3 day event, 2 days round the buoys and the Dam to Dam distance race on the Monday, so worth travelling to. It's on the (soon to be published) Scottish events list, and is both in a stunning location set among hilly woodland and with a very friendly club.

Most of the Scottish boats are 'classic', so you'd be in good company (NSM 1,2,4, Smokers, Summer Wines, Gnomes etc)

Andy


Posted: 26/03/2015 10:03:26
By: Andy
PS not meaning to tread on toes here! Don't think there is a conflict of interests though due to distances.


Posted: 26/03/2015 10:05:46
By: Andy
Gareth, all,
 
The survey was open for a month and the results were fairly conclusive - we went on the information provided - it really is very difficult to go on anything else; i.e. 'information not provided'! I am of the opinion that we shouldn't edit the list now that the Silver Tiller Series (the list of events to choose from) is now in full swing.
 
As I said in my previous post, this is the first iteration of the Classic / Vintage mini series, and it may need tuning for future years - we will listen to feedback happily. What might be useful would be a Classic representative to coordinate this... what I set up in terms of the survey wasn't rocket science (pardon the pun!) - anyone interested in getting Classic boats out together could have done it... Hopefully this is a reasonable start, and there is nothing to stop the Classic fleet going to additional events (like Blithfield) anyway - in fact very much, the more the merrier!
 
Andy, I agree - what you propose doesn't sound like it would tread on toes - perhaps you could set up a similar poll of Northern / Scottish events and use that to gauge and drive interest for a concerted effort there?
 
Tim 


Posted: 26/03/2015 10:47:47
By: TimH
Thanks for your reply Tim

I understand your point of view, as well as the dispondancy of our friends north of Winchester. 

Though regrettable for those who can make so few events due to the voting for a southern bias, let's hope we can get plenty of southern wooden boat up to the Midlands so that it can be a central event for next years more mature boat circuit.

I am very grateful for the committee's hard work and interest.

I hope we can prove a point with our representation.

I really believe that if we can all make this work it will not only get some legendary merlins back out on the circuit but also give the class another way to entice new members into the fleet with a less expensive entry level Merlin Rocket.

Thanks all


Posted: 27/03/2015 23:01:08
By: Gareth Griffiths NHRC
It's important to remember that this is in it's infancy (No scheduled event has run yet!).
 
If there is demand for more northern events it can and will expand to accommodate in future years. To assess demand the events scheduled need support, and if you'd like an event at a specific club a group of boats supporting their Silver Tiller event this year would most definitely sway the balance (We have at least one likely candidate already.).
The Classic Tiller is a bonus really - what you're really travelling for is good sailing amongst, hopefully, like minded boats and people.


Posted: 28/03/2015 08:49:24
By: Chris Martin
Tim, I know you say the results were conclusive, but... there are other factors. Some people that would come to an event, might not have been able to make any of the designated events at those distances at those times.

Others, may not even look at this forum, and some as I have mentioned before might be put off by the fact that it would be part of the ST circuit.
 
Does it have to be on the ST circuit?

Could there just be one (maybe over two days) event in the year specifically for the older boats?

From what I can ascertain from talking to people who own these boats, they would be willing to travel to a one off event if it was just for older boats and didn't mean travelling from one side of the country to the other.
 
Could, perhaps for next year, there be such an event somewhere central to all members (Scots, Welsh, Midlanders, and Southerners)? 


Posted: 28/03/2015 15:39:33
By: Miles
Banbury on this coming Sunday has been designated as the first race in this 'Classic' mini series.  As a further incentive to these boats, there will be a prize for the first Classic boat provided that 5 or more enter.
 
Looks to be a sunny day with a decent breeze so whynot get your 'Classic' on her trailer and roll up on Sunday?


Posted: 16/04/2015 12:30:00
By: RichardT
I have managed to spend some time on looking over the boat & replacing worn bits of string, so should be there with Heaven Sent.  Who else?  Gareth?


Posted: 17/04/2015 11:07:42
By: AndrewM
Hi Andrew, Panatella will be there.
Dave


Posted: 17/04/2015 11:56:16
By: DaveC
I'm afraid I won't make it... 


Posted: 17/04/2015 13:30:49
By: Gareth Griffiths NHRC
Good to see this has come together and I will do my best to get at least 3 events in.  Jen and I always take an interest in any other wooden boats in the fleet.
 
Would be good to have these events flagged up on the "All Fixtures" list.
 
Dan Alsop
MR3539 Gangsta Paradise
 


Posted: 17/04/2015 13:40:28
By: Dan Alsop
So we still don't know if the fabled Niane actually floats!
 
Dan, you Jenny and Gangsta are a bit on the quick side for an elderly boat series - now that Heaven Sent is over 20 years old at least I get into another category at Salcombe for another year.  Will be good to see you and any other wooden boats.   Where is Unfinished Business these days?


Posted: 17/04/2015 17:44:33
By: AndrewM
Ha ha ha...

She floats bouyancy test done but first sail canceled due to a stuck centreboard...

Board all operational now. Out this weekend and the tune up will begin, of both boat and crew

I wish it was easier to post photos on here..


Posted: 17/04/2015 20:36:12
By: Gareth Griffiths NHRC
Here are the results so far for the Classic Mini Series.
 
Two more events to go - Parkstone and Draycote, lets see some Classics at these two and then at the end of the season as previously mentioned we can evaluate, based on participation and feedback.
 
Thanks to Tim Harridge for compiling the results so far:
 


Posted: 07/08/2015 16:25:52
By: Frances Gifford
Hi Tim, thank you for including Sam Thompson and I in the results of this series, but we do not qualify as One Love is only one year old. Sam did not sail 3448 at Weymouth this year. 


Posted: 07/08/2015 20:16:39
By: Ben 3767
Hi folks. I will shortly be making some repairs to 3161 and I am wondering as she is classed as a classic is the their a guide to the amount of modifications/materials that can be used that don't threaten her being disqualified by a racing comittee 

The mini series sounds great and I'd really like to race in the event next year. So if there is any documentation on what you are allowed to do and not allowed to do to you merlin rocket then I would be very grateful to have a read of this before I fix her up.


Thanks.


Posted: 08/08/2015 06:44:48
By: Neil 3161
As things stand - and there are no plans to change drastically - just turn up with a boat over 15 years old and you're in.
 
The De May series is aimed more at your boats age bracket and it operates a handicap system that makes an allowance for boat age and performance enhancing changes that may have been made (Carbon, big kite etc). We would be pleased to see you at a Silver Tiller event though, and if you could bring some friends it'd be even better!
 
Its more about getting old boats out sailing than it is about preserving total originality which is not always possible or economic. 
 


Posted: 08/08/2015 08:56:19
By: Chris Martin
Thanks for the swift reply. That makes life easy with a the relaxed rules on repairs etc.
I am hoping to race in the classics regatta at Bosham sailing club in September. Then possibly Parkstone in September aswell if all goes well.
Thanks.


Posted: 08/08/2015 09:46:30
By: Neil 3161
Hi Neil,
 
I prefer to do the Silver Tiller events  which is proper class racing. I don't much like handicap racing of any sort and to be honest I can be bothered with trying to source a wood or metal mast and a dacron main just so I can get a sensible handicap. OK you aren't going to win a silver tiller event but sometimes you will beat some much newer boats. We have had a lot of fun on the circuit this year and I have had some very kind and encouraging comments from front-end fleet sailors. The more the older boats come to the Silver Tiller events the more interesting it will be for us all and it is good for the class (I believe).
 
The next event is Parkstone with the open water category on the Saturday. Hopefully this will tempt out some classics (any takers???).

Regards,

Dave
 


Posted: 10/08/2015 10:19:54
By: Dave C
Thanks Dave for the advice. I am in the process of getting a crew sorted still.... I am good for next year as the dates can be written in the diary but for september Im finding it tricky.
 
 
We'll see, hopefully someone will crop up with some experience as Id really like to be racing.
 
Regards
Neil


Posted: 10/08/2015 21:05:41
By: Neil

The truth of this is that Dave C has been badly let down by fellow older boat owners, several such owners made much forum noise about doing this event and that event and all but demanded that the class association did something for the older boats.

Indeed several indicated on an online poll that they would go here and there but didn't show up. 
 
Dave has done two events from this mini series and several other open events and as he has rightly pointed out bloodied the nose of many significantly newer boats in the process, which has been great fun to watch and sail against at Banbury, Rutland and Salcombe week.  Apart from that only three other boats have done two events in the classic mini series and they are plastic (started life as Winder Mk1's) which many of those making the noise for change wanted to outlaw from a classic / prime of life series.
 
So where are the wooden boats who demanded change to what was already in place for the boats of 10-20 and 20-30 years of age? 
 
So far this mini series is an epic fail which is sad as your committee listened to the moans and gripes took the decision to upset a few Winder Mk 1 owners and have not received the support from those whom the endeavoured to encourage.
 
So Neil please do try and come along you will be very warmly welcomed at any Merlin event as was I when I took 3190 to my first Merlin open and the 2008 nationals, people were almost queuing up to come and ask me about my boat and tell me of her previous escapades, you might even beat a few much younger boats too. 
 
 
 
 


Posted: 11/08/2015 00:09:40
By: Martin Smith
Martin,
 
I think 'epic fail' is a touch harsh when we are just over half way through the CT series and have 4 boats that have done 2 out of the 3 specified events. I would have said that for the first year, 4 or 5 qualifiers would be regarded as a success. And I expect Parkstone and the Inlands to be a significant draw. I am probably biased though.
 
This said, it is pretty disappointing that some of the more vocal Classic forumers and survey responders are yet to make an appearance at CT or other ST events... I guess it raises the question - why? What else do you need to be tempted out of your holes?!
Tim 


Posted: 11/08/2015 10:20:09
By: TimH
I think my perspective on the classic category was fairly well documented, maybe too much :)  but I'm not seeing any competitors who wouldn't have been racing anyway, and as we may well have predicted, the leader board is full of Mk1 CTs exactly the same spec as those in the rest of the ST events. I just don't see them as belonging in the same category as 'stock' NSM1 and 2s.  It will take something quite spectacular to alter the perception that to be competitive in the mini series as it stands the boat will be in excellent/restored condition and have a lot of carbon on board.
 
It is heartening to see some people making the effort though, and great to see wooden boats racing, and well done to all those who are actively taking part, but I think its pretty clear that its primarily a lack of time and or cash that keeps people away from sailing, not the desire to take part.
  
Btw 3476 in the results table should be 3482, sold 3476 last year, its being sailed and enjoyed at Blithfield SC.


Posted: 11/08/2015 13:08:44
By: KM

Tim

Sorry you think its a bit harsh, however its (only) my view and I'm one of the four that have done two events, three of the four boats that have done two events would probably have done the events they have even if the mini series did not exist. The only reason I didn't go to Weymouth was its proximity to Salcombe week, risk of breakages and lack of time to get repairs sorted being my primary concern.

I'm really disappointed that the vocal forum sailors have failed to show up, I only wish I knew what to suggest to get them out there.  


Posted: 11/08/2015 14:43:19
By: MArtin Smith
Martin,
Fair point, let's see how things progress.
 
KM,
I think you're aware that the NSM1s and 2s are technically Vintage so, although encouraged to attend the CT (and ST in general) too, they are not actually in the same band as the Classic boats.
 
The boats we seem to be missing in the Classic Tiller are the earlier to mid-Classics, of the likes of the NSM4s, Thin Ices, Riders of the Storms, Turner Tales, etc. Particularly those who felt they were 'reasonably likely' to attend from the survey.
Anyway, the re-categorisation wasn't just for the traveller series, so it'll be interesting to see who makes it to the Nationals and Inlands - as with all these things, the more the merrier, so (like DaveC) get involved!
 
Tim 


Posted: 11/08/2015 15:32:25
By: TimH
Thanks Tim,
As you may recall, my boat was 'sorted' into the 'modern boat' class so I think I'm barred from the mini series. I could always disguise our boat as an entrant for the classic fleet - its identical in spec to many of those competing :)  I may have misunderstood the classification boundaries - perhaps there just too few active boats around to make it viable?
 
Could the membership renewal be used as part of a survey to determine how many boats are actually used and how frequently - it might also serve to verify the current ownership of the boats on the list which I think may be in need of updating.  The proposal to have a live database would be able to cope with  that much better and presumably the information would need to be verified before it was set up for the first time.
 
I'll be doing the inlands, time and cash allowing, and so will 3482 with similar constraints, but we would have done the event anyway.
 
I appreciate the intent behind the mini series and do support the idea, but on a limited budget I don't think 3482 will be at Parkstone or the Nationals and missed Weymouth for the same reason.  For us its always either Salcombe or the Nationals - cant afford both and who would want to miss Salcombe!
 
I'm sure there will be other boats who are closer to the events and will be able to attend though? Lets hope the series ends with a flourish. 


Posted: 11/08/2015 19:58:50
By: KM
As one of the 'vocal' moaners who hasn't made a single event I agree it is disappointing that what we think we want isn't necessarily what we can achieve.. sometimes I guess life just gets in the way ... sometimes we are as 'classic' as the boat and get broken ourselves... and sometimes 'she who must' says NO.  However,  I still see this as a positive opportunity and encouragement to participate and live in hope that if I get everything in the diary a year ahead there will be less objection form 'she who must', a strategy for avoiding breakages and a chance that the crew will not forget the dates in his diary!!  Looking forward (perhaps wistfully?) to seeing you all at Draycot...


Posted: 11/08/2015 22:32:59
By: Alan 3571
Hi Dave C,
 
 
are you at parkstone this weekend? wind looks light. thinking of taking 3161. However will it be packed with fast  merlins? I will have a new crew with not much experience. 
 
How many wooden boats do you think will make it?
 
Cheers
Neil


Posted: 14/09/2015 18:39:00
By: Neil 3161
As another one of the vocal moaners, and also someone who hasn't yet attended a 'classic' event. Similar reasons  to Alan, plus they are too far away.
 
I know Merlin Rocket events are class racing, full stop.

I now I've mentioned this before, and ignored, however we owners of older boats wanted just a couple of specific events with age related handicapping. A moon rocket, ghost rider etc. is not going to be competitive with a winder. I still fail to see how a Mk1 winder can be classified as a classic. They are a modern design. They are still competitive for one thing, just look at 'Wild Card' in the hands of Olly. 
 
So if you have a 'woody' and want to meet up for age/rig related handicapped racing at a mutually arranged and accessible location do contact me and I'll put you in touch with a group of other like minded Merliners. Yes, we do exist.

This isn't and never was just about being welcomed into the main events, that welcme has always existed and always will. It's about letting people see that older merlins are still worth buying, a good entry to the class for those on low budgets, and might just save some from becoming flowerpots. 

We can't all get to ST events.

Miles. contact:  anna mali 2 (at) aol . com    (no spaces)


Posted: 15/09/2015 08:27:36
By: Miles
Panatella will be at Parkstone this Saturday baring any last-minute problems but I'm not sure if we will do both days. The £40 entrance fee is bit steep, lets hope it doesn't put off too many of the on-a-budget sailors!
 
Neil, I do hope you will join in the fun. So what if there are lots of fast new boats, it should be a good week-end Poole harbour is a nice place just to go sailing and you have the added bonus of socialising with (in the main) like-minded people, 
 
Dave C 


Posted: 15/09/2015 09:03:24
By: Dave C
Hi, looks like i will have to not go to Parkstone. The main reason being my usual crew can not make it and I will have to take my cousin. She has not sailed before and to be honest I dont really want her first sail to be a race as it might put her off.
 
 A bit gutted as was hoping to get down.
 
Things might change though but just letting you know.
 
Regards
Neil


Posted: 17/09/2015 09:29:50
By: Neil 3161
Neil,
 
Weather forecast for Saturday is 3 to 4 kts - so unlikely to scare her off. With nice weather and very light winds possibly  a good day to  introduce her to sailing and Merlin's
 
Regards, Dave
 


Posted: 18/09/2015 07:29:55
By: Dave C
Sorry that I won't be there - I'm posting this from rural Italy in 30 deg heat (a tough job, as they say, but someone etc.)  I am getting Heaven Sent back after the repairs this weekend, aiming still to do at least some of the Inlands and Blithfield next month (as well as Hampton of course)
 
Andrew  


Posted: 18/09/2015 13:39:48
By: AndrewM

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