MERLIN ROCKET FORUM

Topic : Smooth skin and kit-built Merlin Rockets

Yes, the title of this topic may be the stuff of nightmares to some of you, but others may be interested to hear that:
1. A smooth skin version of my Hazardous Zero-9 MR is being built in New Zealand. I've posted some images on my website - they show just the frames at present, but I'll update as soon as I have more images. See link below.
2. I have had a Hazardous Zero-9 LITE kit cut by Jordan Boats using a flat bed CNC router. All the plywood parts are profiled to the exact shape. The kit is in my shed near Ipswich and anyone wishing to have a look at it is very welcome. It is available from me for £999, including carriage charges. See my website for details.

http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Merlins/H09RB.shtm

Posted: 02/05/2010 13:00:26
By: Keith Callaghan
I think the plywood kit idea is very interesting, and not horrific. Surely a new way to build a class-legal Merlin is a good thing? Especially in WOOD, hurrah!

I would like to see someone try that out. If only it was as easy as a stitch-and-glue Mirror I might give it a try...


Posted: 02/05/2010 21:52:17
By: Mags
Looks interesting ... especially as I happen to have free access to a 8x4 CNC router .. always fancied having a go at a boat :)

As for 'smooth skin' .. does that mean without the 6mm step between planks? I thought the class rules required that the step had to be there, even on the composite versions and the edge could not be smoothed or faired in any way?


Posted: 03/05/2010 11:52:12
By: Robin Szemeti
Yes so it is a Merlin Rocket built to the lines of my boat but smooth skin, so an Aussie rules MR, just like their football.
Will be interesting to see how it comes out.
Robin, why not have a go with one of Keiths kits, my Smart built one sails lovely just needs a better helm(and Lighter) in the back end.


Posted: 03/05/2010 11:58:29
By: rob 3708
Hmm, odd idea. I have to say, if I was going to build one, I would only be interested if it was class legal, otherwise, you might as well just do an "own design", as you won't really find anywhere to sail it ... even the club handicap racers would start complaining if you sailed it as a Merlin and started wining things.



The idea of building one does appeal .. however I have in order of priority:

Get 3329 back on the water (deck/topsides restoration) (in progress)
Build boatshed in garden (summer 2010)
Restore internals of 3329 (winter 2010)

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Robin_Szemeti%27s_Router

Posted: 03/05/2010 13:03:58
By: Robin Szemeti
Ooops ... strange that was the reply I deleted ... 

What I wanted to say was, interesting idea, I like the idea of CNC cut plywood boats. Its the way to build things out of wood.

I really need to finish 3239 before looking at any other project.

Back some years ago I built a CNC router, and moved it on to someone else who now does interesting stuff with it .. and I have use of a Vytek Rebel 2, 8x4 router, with vacuum clamping, 7hp spindle and full 3D motion .. would cut a Merlin out in an hour. Nice to see keith offers the electronic files, that would make it an interesting router project ..


better get the boatshed finished and 3239 all sorted out :)

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Robin_Szemeti%27s_Router

Posted: 03/05/2010 13:08:51
By: Robin Szemeti
Having got access (ish) to a 17m x 6m x 3m five axis machine (sorry this is not intended in "a mine is bigger than yours" manner), I am interested in exploring the possibilities of alternative GRP plugs and moulds. Big issue is that the Class Rules do not allow plugs to be made from polystyrene or a CNC mould.

Was going to propose a rule change for the AGM, but ran out of time. So will try next year ...


Posted: 03/05/2010 17:19:50
By: Andy Hay - Champs Chappie
seems an entirely sensible suggestion ... I thought foam plugs where normal in most GRP moulding shops these days? there must have once been a reason. I can imagine for a traditional class that has allowed GRP hulls why it might be appropriate to have such a restriction, but for a development class, it seems odd. I guess it stems from a time when this sort of production technique was expensive and obscure and was intended to keep the playing field level by not letting someone buy their way to the top. these days having a plug CNC machined out of foam is actually the most cost effective way to produce a high quality plug, building a equivalent plug by hand would be significantly more expensive.

It would certainly reduce the costs of having a plug made, and produce a plug that was accurate to the designers 3D model too ... perhaps 10 years ago when 3D design software was rare and expensive, it was relevant, but these days, its cheap and universal, sounds like a much needed update to me.


Posted: 04/05/2010 09:11:23
By: Robin Szemeti
Robin, you clearly have a lot of expertise in the CNC field (and congratulations on building a flat bed CNC router system yourself!), but I reckon that you could not produce a plug much cheaper than setting up some MDF frames and planking up as if you were making a hull. Of course there is the filling of the lands, and the finishing, which is time consuming...
Also, with my current knowledge of the software that I use, I'm not sure I could define a 3D model which included the lands rounded to 6mm radius with a 4mm radius filling.


Posted: 04/05/2010 10:29:21
By: Keith Callaghan
I think the reason for no polystyrene plugs was for a very simple reason - to ensure that no-one could produce a boat which could not be produced in wood.


Posted: 04/05/2010 16:02:53
By: Andy M
Hmm ... but i can produce ANY shaped plug in wood, its just more expensive and time consuming. 

And remember you can put in as many frames as you like in the plug .. the boards can be overlapped by 1mm and barely hanging together ... it would never make a decent wooden boat, but molded in GRP it would be fine.

If you are trying to ensure that the wooden and grp techniques produce equivalent boats, insisting on a wooden plug won't do it, because it is quite possible to build a wooden plug for a design that could never be built and sailed as a wooden boat.

And anyway, the rules do allow for a plug to be made from foam core sheets ... oh the fun you could have with a decent thermoforming plastic and a hot air gun :) remember, the plug does not have to be sound enough to sail ... only to sound enough to take a moulding ... and you can put in as many frames as you want to achieve that.

I suppose there is nothing to stop you making a foam core and then overlaying it with wood or foam cored sheets and using that as your plug, as there is nothing in the rules as to the method of construction of the core of framing of the plug ... cover it in contact adhesive and stick em on :)


Posted: 04/05/2010 20:01:56
By: Robin Szemeti
Keith, 

dont forget that most foam plugs are hand finished and faired ... you have to apply surface filler and sand em flat before you can take your female mold, so there is ample opportunity to get busy with the filling knife and sanding block.

I guess if you have access to a large supply of wood and a flatbed router .. the wood and frames method is cheap .. if you happen to have access to a 5 axis large volume machine and a block of foam, then thats even cheaper .. it just depends on who your mates are I guess.


Posted: 04/05/2010 20:06:10
By: Robin Szemeti
Keith - I am reliably informed that the software that we have (Unigraphics) has the ability to do what you want, although a cove and filler might give a better result. We might need a ruling on whether MDF is technically wood ...

As to plug materials in general, my other reason for wanting to "open" up the plug and mould rules is the disconnect between the mould and the plug. Let me explain: the Rules dictate that you must make a mould from an existing boat or a wood / foam plug. This plug is then measured and stamped prior to making the mould. All fine and simple thus far.

The Rules then do not allow you to make ANY modifications to the plug without remeasurement. The mould, on the other hand, can be cut about to ANY degree - with the proviso that the final shape can be made in wood (or foam planks). Hence the mould, after making it, could bear no resemblance to the plug that it was produced from. Seems to be a massive waste of effort and money on all sides to me.

As long as the planking pattern could be made in wood - this is simple to demonstrate in the 3D virtual world - then why stop this potential development route to an alternative mould?


Posted: 04/05/2010 20:07:12
By: Andy Hay - Champs Chappie
Robin and Andy, your comments are very interesting. But I started this thread with the wider aim of ascertaining the degree of interest in design development in the Class. So far, it looks as though there is near zero interest. Not surprising when you remember that only 11 boats were built last year. The Winder (or should I say Holt?) MROD may well dominate the Class for the rest of its natural life if something new does not turn up - and those who sail Merlins on the Circuit (ie those who have the biggest say) do not seem to have any worries about that.


Posted: 08/05/2010 13:38:44
By: Keith Callaghan
I think it is a very interesting project, and, when I eventually have a boat shed later this year, the idea of cutting one out and gluing it together does appeal. 

I applaud your efforts in producing the design, it looks great, it really does, and I am a BIG fan of wooden boats and CNC manufacture. I can't get very excited about GRP boats at all ... they sail perfectly well, but years from now, they will be dull and cracked, I doubt anyone will want to restore them. Wooden boats have a soul and a life that you just don't get with GRP ... hopefully someone will still be caring for them in years to come.

The problem is as I see it there are only a few "enthusiasts" like myself (and dare I say it, yourself) left on the planet who actually enjoy building and creating things with their own hands. The vast majority prefer to pay the money and purchase a freshly moulded blob.

The other problem is that people who race on the circuit are interested in winning. Who built the boat and how is of little concern, the only question is "is it faster?" and until a new desing starts actually winning, it is unlikely to get any serious attention.

The third problem, is that construction in wood requires skilled craftsmen, whereas construction in GRP is relatively unskilled (not saying the guys at Winder employ chimps, but for the same standard of production, you can train a GRP mouler in a few months, a craftsman working in wood would take years to train) so, the modern manufacturer usually goes for GRP construction ... so you are unlikely to see the build technique taken up by manufacturers.

So, apart from the odd one or two "enthusiasts" who set to with a pot of epoxy and a pile of wood in their garage, I feel you wont see many of these built, which is a great pity, because as you say, the class design has largely stagnated. Perhaps something is needed to kick-start the design process again .. perhaps allowing smooth skin boats built in wood but not GRP? I guess you have to balance that against making what must already be a pretty nice market (11 boats in 2009) too small to be profitable for the manufacturers that have stuck with it ...

Anyway, I can't speak for the rest of them, but I personally like the idea .. my only reservation is that with a smooth skin, it will perhaps be a little difficult to find places to use it for racing ( I don't give a hoot about resale value, its irrelevant) I think if that could be overcome, you would possibly find more people being interested.

One thought, you could submit a series of build pics to Mags each quarter for inclusion in the class maagzine, maybe that will raise some interest??


Posted: 08/05/2010 16:09:15
By: Robin Szemeti
spelling correction : "pretty niche market" .. not "nice"


Posted: 08/05/2010 16:11:06
By: Robin Szemeti
At the very outset of the class two smooth skin Merlins were built, by G O'Brien Kennedy, one number 75, finished second in the second championships, then I understand (Probably at the amalgamation with the Rocket?) the rules were tidied up and clinker bacame the only construction.
The Welsh Harp has a smooth skinned Merlin Rocket Class the MRX how succesful I do not know but as far as I am aware it has not spread beyond the Welsh Harp.
So nothing new, but I would doubt that there would be the neccesary majority to pass at an AGM anyway.
With a moribund (I do not mean this in a perjorative way.) new build with only one builder actualy building,despite a couple of one offs, and a very active healthy vintage/classic wing especially at club level, I at any rate would really hope that more new boats could be built to different designs, - past experience shows they will not be a lot if any faster but they will not be slower either - I hesitate to use the word budget or basic but even the exising Winder could be produced less expensively.


Posted: 08/05/2010 16:30:10
By: Ancient Geek
Ah, now .. having read Keith's webpage more carefully, (the original link he provided was to the "smooth skin" page) I now reallise he also has plans for fully class legal designs too, .. now, that is MUCH more interesting, especially the hazourdous 09 "lite" as my crew and I only weight 130kg after a decent helping of pudding. 

That could be VERY interesting for this next winters entertainment :) I really will have to get a shift on with the boatshed building!!

Keith, you could also look at this as a clever scarfing method: http://seaside5592.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-variation-on-stepped-scarf.html piece of cake to do on a router, just a series of 0.4mm steps cut as a mirror pair into the two sides ... easy cut on the router and brilliant for assembly ... you can just clamp it up without fear of it sliding apart, like a scarf joint normally tries to do as you clamp it.

http://seaside5592.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-variation-on-stepped-scarf.html

Posted: 08/05/2010 18:11:20
By: Robin Szemeti
robin,a merlin to most people is quite a large investment,so why would anyone be interested in a average performing but pretty boat,it is what it is,a racing machine.I doubt without the involvment of winders there would not be much of a class left for any of us.Regarding longevity of plastic boats the modern construction is infintely superior to old plastic boats ,my winder was 10 yrs old and really stiff,wooden boats go off much faster,especially with the ply available today,im forever glassing the bottom of merlin to stop the spread of veneer cracks.Most people would like to see something different,but £for £ its a big risk.
I certainly dont ever want to see a smooth skin merlin,wee'd just be another unrecognisable boat in the park, even with its cover on you know what it is!Im not a plastic boat afficianado as my own boats 40 yrs old and under restoration and hope to have something special when its finished,we are what we are, withsome extremely talented people ,its a special boat,look after it!!!!!


Posted: 08/05/2010 19:20:32
By: D.H.
Why would anyone risk ending up with an "average" performing boat?  The answer to that one is very easy: because there is also a "risk" it might be better than the best. If no one had "risked" trying something different, we'd still be sailing around in copies of the proctor Mk IX. I take my hat off to the Merlin owners of years gone by, each one took a risk on a new design, that's why we have such an interesting and varied history of boats in the class.

I agree with you that without the support of Winders and the various manufacturers, there would not be any new Merlins around. I doubt they make a huge profit from the class, so yes, I am grateful they are there, but still, as a development class, there should always be something to encourage someone to "have a go" ... whats the worst that could happen? I suppose it is possible that the current Winders are the *perfect* shape and cannot be bettered within the class rules ... but I wouldn't bet on it.

What it really needs is someone to get one of the new designs into the hands of a top helm/crew ... If they could take home a pot or two, it might make people sit up and take notice.


Posted: 08/05/2010 19:58:23
By: Robin Szemeti
Glen and Olly weren't sailing an FRP Winder last year and they picked up a few pots ;)


Posted: 08/05/2010 20:22:27
By: Dave Lee
Maybe Rob Holroyd is willing to loan his Zero9 to a top helm within the class and see how the boat performs? Understand the boat went very well, and was fast at Salcombe last year with Rob at the helm. Food for thought?

The great thing about the MR class is that there is, to some degree choice, plastic, wood and various designs, we just need to be a little careful that with the plastic boat we don't become tar and feathered as being just another RS400, white decks, grey hulls, same sails, mast, booms..............

Anyway I digress. If I had the cash, time and skills I would buy one of Keith's kits, as I do have a bias towards wood (individual choice) and, if I had a bit more cash I would get Laurie to put it together for me as I regularly popped up to visit Laurie and saw 3708 being beautifully constrcuted, which reminds me, I did laugh at Phil Morrisons comment in the Winter mag when he said that Laurie said to Phil that "Rob's boat would probably be the last Merlin he ever builds' Laurie said exactly the same to me when he was building Pat Blakes old boat 3640 back in 2003! I think there is a few more to come from you yet laurie! For now though I will cherish my 52yr old wooden XIb - 908 and hopefully see one or two of you on the Thames/Vintage series this or next year :-)


Posted: 08/05/2010 20:54:25
By: Richard Battey
Out of interest, roughly how long did it take Laurie to build 3708? an rough estimate of hours, so I knwo what I might be letting myself in for?


Posted: 08/05/2010 21:45:56
By: Robin Szemeti
I got a complete boat from Laurie,including painting and fitting out.

Ordered late Nov 08, sailing April 09, so build work was really December and boat displayed at Dinghy show in March 09, painted but not completely fitted out.


Posted: 08/05/2010 22:00:01
By: rob 3708
I can ask Laurie if you want? He keeps a little book on his work bench which records all the hours spent on repairs, builds etc,etc. I suspect he will curse me but with an 5oz bag of golden viginia some rizzlas and a pint of Best in the Star on offer he will co-operate :-))


Posted: 08/05/2010 22:09:40
By: Richard Battey
richard&robin,thats a very valid point,it would be great to see someone like mr whitworth or clavers in robs boat,i'm really looking forward to seeing jt's boat at the champs it may be just what we need!!


Posted: 08/05/2010 22:15:02
By: D.H.
It will be most interesting to see what JT has come up with either way it will be fast and a work of art. And to digress again, If I heard right? It will be just fantastic if the great Jon Turner is stepping back into a Merlin with his old sailing partner Richard Parslow!


Posted: 08/05/2010 22:25:09
By: Richard Battey
If I had to take a guess I would have thought 100 hours or so on the build, maybe 25 on the finishing and another 20 on fitting out ... IF you had all the bits to hand and you knew what you were doing!!  

The nice thing about a CNC pre-cut build is it should cut out (sic) a lot of the guesswork and allow someone with at least some skill to complete it in a fairly quick time.


Posted: 08/05/2010 22:59:56
By: Robin Szemeti
Dirty Hands I am very much with you on this and had exactly the same thought the first time I saw "Wicked" but how do you get a top helm and crew to potentialy for go a major event to prove the new design? 
They might clear off and win and they might not.....
You could always try Tim Male or James Dawes in it as they have both on occasions slaughtered far new boats with their tin rigged older designs, I would argue that they are both worthy of a sponsored season in a new design with a modern rig to see if they could ruffle a few feathers.


Posted: 08/05/2010 23:24:50
By: Smokin
Hi guys - I'm the antipodean building the smooth skin zero 9 (despite the name, I don't think its a Merlin - its clearly not class legal).  My rationale for building was pretty simply - I wanted to use a strip planked cedar core becuase the next project (!) is a 9m race boat constructed the same way.  I actually found it quite difficult to access plans for anything that wasn't 3000 years old.....like Paul Gartside boats (pretty but not particularly  interesting from a sailing point of view).  I also thought I could complete it with a modicum of woodworking skills and over a winter season.  This looks like its working out.   I have about 70% of the core on and she's starting to look like a boat....  I had the frames, plywood stem, bulkheads and stringers cut by CNC - the lines Keith have drawn are so fair that the cedar strips go on with no fuss - I would estimate at that 80% to 90% won't need cutting (excpet to trim the ends for length).  Ply planking might be a little quicker but I'm not certain.  The boat will be an orphan here in NZ but that's OK - I didn't build it with racing in mind.  It also means that I can go sailing with a fairly roachy main and a mast head gennaker!!  For my sins, I'm also considering a retractable  prod (don't tell Keith....) for the genny.  I did a little bit of CAD work on Keith's sections - I'm pretty confident that you could CNC cut a boat from foam if you wanted - I briefly considered it but dropped the idea in favour of cedar - foam just doesn't smell the same...a friend of mine has a CNC machine and regularly cuts irregular shapes for us - he was certain that he could cut the boat.


Posted: 09/05/2010 10:50:17
By: ST
ST,
Well done for taking on the project!

Yesterday was my Sialing Club's Open Day. One thing that always attracts attention are the wooden dinghies - Merlin & Solo - the others all tend to look the same to an inexperienced eye - grey plastic...
The Merlin clinker shape is distinctive - think of Class branding - It really makes the Class distinctive - and attracts people.

The other thought I've had was that if you had longer spinnaker poles (i.e. longer than class legal) you could use a symmetric spinnaker and carry it round onto the reach - that gives you the option of Spinnaker runs and reaches...

Colin


Posted: 09/05/2010 11:45:46
By: Colin
The class did trial assymmetric spinnakers and fully battened mains a little while back.  I doubt there will be much support particularly now the new size spinny is doing so well.   A lot of Merlins are sailed in places an assymmetric even set on a conventional pole is no help - rivers, Salcombe Harbour.  The present pole length is about as long as can be stowed alongside the boom.


Posted: 10/05/2010 15:14:32
By: Andrew M
Yes I remember that, mid 90's. I forget who modified their, or a.n.other boat, and left it on the beach at Salcombe for test trials? If my memory serves me correctly not one single person took up the offer of a trial! Speaks volumes;-)

Anyway any chance of posting some pics on this site of the build?


Posted: 10/05/2010 16:03:01
By: Richard Battey
I think asymmetric technology was a lot less advanced and a lot less commonplace in 1995 than it is today. An asymmetric Merlin could give an RS500 a run for its money!

Anyway ... I ordered the plans, will be placing an order with Robbins Timber this week .. wish me luck :)


Posted: 10/05/2010 19:07:27
By: Robin Szemeti
2620 'Yesterday Man' was converted to asymetric - an original Satisfaction, which had it's moments. BUT why consider such a change? There are loads of different types of smooth skin asymetric thingys - this might be a period of stagnation driven by the 'crunch' - BUT the rules allow development - surely the key


Posted: 10/05/2010 21:32:43
By: Peter Scott
I've been keeping Keith updated with photos of the build in progress and will continue to do so - they are currently hosted on his website (I've forgotten my camera the last couple of weeks and so have gotten a little behind....).   I can add in pictures of the sail plan once I've confirmed it and let you know how it performs - just for interest sake.


Posted: 11/05/2010 03:21:09
By: ST
Hi Robin
Where are you based? If near reading you can always come and see my boat if you need to.
Good luck with the build,


Posted: 11/05/2010 10:16:02
By: Rob
Would be most interesting to see those .. mine will be a standard Hazourdous 09 Lite,  with a normal clinker hull, but I suspect the performance will be nearly identical. 

I'm going to run a online blog/photo diary of the build, at least on the days I remember to take a photo anyway :)

Hope to be ordering the wood later this week, but may spend a while playing with the cutting files before actually doing the routing, theres a few things I want to try (like the multi-step scarf joints) and adding things like the hole for the inspection hatch in the bow tank.


Posted: 11/05/2010 10:22:09
By: Robin Szemeti
Will you cut the decks by hand, that is the question...


Posted: 11/05/2010 12:06:48
By: Mags
Was the asymmetric merlin not the development vehicle for the RS400?

A standard Merlin now almost gives the RS500 a run for its money, PY=1000 vs 972 for a 500 with trapeze and gennaker. (and 11kg lighter). I suppose in its defence the RS500 has alloy spars. I don't really know why the 500 is slower than the 400. Both Morrison designs.

As a new RS400 or 500 is quite a lot of money, isn't about time we had a new generation of DIY buiding? Dare I say something easier than a Merlin? Maybe using ply and epoxy/carbon. Probably hard to match the value for money of used boats of course.


Posted: 11/05/2010 13:32:27
By: ChrisI
Yes I remember Spud's modified Satisfaction was the development model for the RS400 which Phil was designing at the time. 
John Turner also turned up at Salcombe one year with a very complicated twin pole asymmetric system on 3491 I think. Nobody was very keen on that either.


Posted: 11/05/2010 15:55:56
By: RH
@Rob: I'm in Worcester/Bewdley, I try not to venture south, but next time I do I'll see if you are about, would be interesting to see a finished one :) Reading is sort of on my way from Worcester to London, I'll give you an email or someting next time I plan to go that way.

@Mags: Yes, the decks will be cut by hand, I am a big fan of CNC assisted construction, but you can't get a machine to match the grain up in quite the same way that you can by eye. :)

I've not done a lot of woodwork since the fateful day I said to my wife "Lets not buy a fitted kitchen, I'll make one" so I'm rather looking forward to it. I suspect she might actually make me finish the kitchen as well at some point ...


Posted: 12/05/2010 00:10:08
By: Robin Szemeti
Whilst I definitely could not be described as a quick worker I have built a number of boats. So, might I suggest that your time estimate is a touch optimistic 200 hrs for the hull finished but not fitted out would seem a more realistic estimate & fitting out can take a while too. Not only are there lots of fittings but positioning them to allow the various control lines to clear one another in the space available was more time consuming than I expected...

I would be interested in your project especially the use of a CNC as I have also measured up quite a few boats & found some remarkable variations between what are supposed to be the same designs & also found very few to be symmetrical ... However, I am a southerner who rarely ventures north!

NB I have found the WEST system to my liking & the Gougeon Brothers book very informative except their suggestion of coating the timber prior to construction. Whilst there is some merit & one can easily see the rational in practice I found it easier to coat after (with the exception of inside the bow tank of course!)

Anyway good luck


Posted: 12/05/2010 07:59:07
By: CJ
Coo look at the pics of the NZ Smooth MR

http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Merlins/H09RB1078.jpg

Posted: 10/06/2010 14:16:48
By: Rob
Cwor


Posted: 10/06/2010 14:47:15
By: ):
Now that is the sweetest bit of woodwork I have ever seen. Gorgeous!


Posted: 10/06/2010 15:26:14
By: Mags
Gosh.


Posted: 10/06/2010 16:57:19
By: Ben 3634
I suppose it would be possible to make a clinker boat look like that (albeit with the lines running in a different direction). Hmmm...


Posted: 10/06/2010 18:24:23
By: Mags
In theory at least, you can run the planks in any direction and any width as long as the exposed dimension is less than 160mm. I guess that you could potentially end up with a double thickness hull so that the hull is effectively a series of plank lands very closely spaced. As long as each plank overlaps the next on the outside it could be legal. You would end up with a 12mm thick hull, which might be heavy.

Probably wrong, but does this mean that you could build a planked smooth skinned MR?

Keith - the smooth skin shape looks awesome, right on the money.


Posted: 10/06/2010 19:41:26
By: Andy Hay - Champs Chappie
More here

http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Merlins/H09RB.shtm

Posted: 10/06/2010 20:25:37
By: Garry R
Nah, must be photoshop trickery .. you can tell its not real because the floor is not covered in crap ;)


Posted: 10/06/2010 21:03:46
By: Robin Szemeti
And a rug!!


Posted: 10/06/2010 23:11:36
By: Garry R
In my First Six Years history of the class I wrote that Beecher Moore's plan was to have Merlins available for immediate sale in 1946. The caretaker Committee intended that future Merlins would be moulded to facilitate speedy delivery of hulls. They were unable to find a satisfactory supplier and in January 1946 it was decided "that individual members of the committee should encourage the clinker hull"

Had Fairey Marine been well established by January 1946 maybe we would all have been sailing smooth skinned boats for the last 64 years!


Posted: 11/06/2010 09:05:32
By: Robert Harris
A bit of history. I think you will find the boat used as the test bed for the RS400 development was one 'Yesterday Man' (believe 2620 - handbook is at home), built for Richard Davis and finishing 2nd in her first year at the Nationals. The next boat was 'Nowhere Man' and as the name suggests, she did not come up to the mark. 

Richard was at teh Nationals last year sailing his Winder which is currently on the secondhand list and had very little use for her age.


Posted: 11/06/2010 11:45:35
By: Barnsie
It would be great to see one here just to find out how different it was to sail


Posted: 11/06/2010 14:13:57
By: Crew
Hi,

Interesting discussion this; there's some pictures of my smooth skinned, strip planked National Twelve on the boat database of the Twelve website under boat number N3503 (http://www.national12.org/boats/index.php?action=view&value=3503). I guess a smooth skinned Merlin would look similar and I'd be interested in building one if it were class legal. It's a very straightforward way to build a beautiful wooden boat (or is it a wood cored plastic boat?). I've also often wondered whether it would be possible to build a clinker boat by strip planking but I think this might compromise the simplicity of the construction method.

Marcus


Posted: 18/06/2010 12:23:46
By: Marcus
When Tony Larder and I built Fat Pig (3430), the wisdom at the time was that it took about 400 hours for a professional to build a Merlin.  We weren't professionals so it took us somewhat longer... A CNC cut kit would have drastically reduced the time - there was a lot of "so how do we do the next bit?" but the satisfaction of crafting every bit yourself takes some beating.  Tony went on to build another boat but the dedication required put me off.  I'd only consider doing it again if the design was proven.


Posted: 18/06/2010 13:21:30
By: Fat Pig
That N12 is very very sexy. Just perfectly beautiful!


Posted: 18/06/2010 17:39:27
By: Mags
Just a quick update on my progress ...

I finally got the base for the new boat shed shed laid and have begun knocking some wood about for the boatshed itself. I also finally got the last coat of varnish on 3239 and have spent some of today screwing the fittings back on, hoepfully back on the water next Wednesday night!!

MDF Sheet and plywood and cedar for the Hazourdous 09 Lite has been ordered and is expected in the next 2 weeks. Got the router all fired up, the new vacuum clamping set up and skimmed the sacrificial bed up ready to cut the sheets out for the Merlin. Ran some tests in 18 and 25mm MDF, all fine, so should be able to cut the kit out no trouble at all .. I'd estimate 2 hours cutting time.

Bet the rest of the build takes longer than that ;)


Posted: 18/06/2010 23:06:54
By: Robin Szemeti
Uffa Fox used to build a ribbed, nailed up International 14 in a week!


Posted: 19/06/2010 10:26:24
By: :):
I think Mr Fox had a few workers on 30/- a week or less doing much of the graft.  10 hours day X 6 X 4 then there was the varnishing afterwards if the owner wanted it finished.  And the finish by the yard would not havwe been pristine as there were assumed to be short lived craft and an owner would re-do it at the end of the season.  Home builders tend to be much more fastidious but the man hours to get the shell done could probably match UF Ltd but then it really slows down as he does not have apprentices (whose parents who have paid Mr F for the apprenticeship)scurrying round with glasspaper and tack rags.


Posted: 19/06/2010 20:46:02
By: Kier Hardy
A good point Kier Hardy, but apprenticeships are coming back, times are hard too.


Posted: 19/06/2010 21:41:00
By: :):
A while week? coo.

No doubt much of that was spent making the nails and boiling down horses for glue ...


Posted: 19/06/2010 21:48:35
By: Robin Szemeti
5000 tiny brass/copper nails no glue just oilded silk between the 3mm veneers!


Posted: 20/06/2010 11:21:25
By: :):
Ah yes, thats true ... I suppose horse based glues are not waterproof, the whole thing would just go soggy and fall apart on its first outing. Good point.

What about say .... Penguins or Ducks ... could you make a waterproof glue by boiling up a load of those?


Posted: 20/06/2010 21:30:22
By: Robin Szemeti
'I suppose horse based glues are not waterproof' - why should this be? I've seen horses swimming and they haven't subsequently fallen apart. Or are there numerous delaminated equines in the sand dunes behind Northumberland's beaches? Oh dear, now I shall fret all day. What is the RSPCA's helpline number?


Posted: 21/06/2010 08:09:27
By: E Poxy esq
Cascamite is made from fish bones, so don't joke about it penguins etc!


Posted: 21/06/2010 09:38:43
By: Mags
You cant beat epoxy!


Posted: 21/06/2010 10:12:31
By: Harold Dite
There once was a fellow called Uffa
Nailed up boats considerably tougher
All made in a week
No glue and no leaks
But agreed that the finish was rougher.


Posted: 21/06/2010 12:11:30
By: Garry R
Old aeroplanes are glued together cheese.

No really.


Posted: 22/06/2010 01:06:33
By: Robin Szemeti
I've just remembered that there's some photos of my Twelve taken during construction on the gallery pages of the N12 website (http://www.national12.org/gallery/index.php and scroll down to last additions). Building the decks into the hull shell saved a great deal of construction time!


Posted: 22/06/2010 10:49:30
By: Marcus
I did finally get 3239 back on the water ... just trying to decide now whether to do the next race series in the Wayfarer (which seems to be doing OK at last ) and train in the Merlin for a bit longer ... or bite the bullet.

I suspect I'll take the Wayfarer up to the Menai Straits for the summer and do the Summer B series in the Merlin.

Photo VV down there, looks shiny!

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Z_5VzQ2yJ_o/TCHMU4awQcI/AAAAAAAAASM/XeDgivXIVME/dsc00506_m.jpg

Posted: 02/07/2010 01:36:40
By: Robin Szemeti

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