MERLIN ROCKET FORUM

Topic : Main halyard creap

We have had a couple of windy races now and being lighter than the average end up pulling on loads of kicker/cunningham and dragging the main down a little as we do.

I'm thinking a two to one halyard would help, is this easy to do with a white superspar carbon mast or are there easier ways to stop this happening?

Ian


Posted: 19/09/2009 16:21:51
By: Ian
Use wire to a hook, zero stretch.


Posted: 19/09/2009 17:16:29
By: ...
Works for me.  Drill a hole in the forward part of the mast head fitting, tie a bowline through it in the end of the main halyard, use a shackle through the bite onto the top of the main and away you go = no descending main, less compression, loads of string in the boat - put it in a bag at the bottom of the mast.


Posted: 19/09/2009 19:40:54
By: DaveC
2 to 1 on halyard and 2 to 1 one the cleat.
Then hoist it hard to top, pull on the cunningham to take out stretch, then take slack up again.
Beware that too much tension will put curve in to the top section of the mast.


Posted: 19/09/2009 20:59:07
By: observer
Buy some decent halyard rope.  5 quid a metre should do it.


Posted: 21/09/2009 03:05:22
By: Jon E
It's not necesserily just creep, clamcleats are great but they do slip under high loads. a 2:1 halyard, wire/D12 halyard with a 2:1 pull up at the bottom or a an old fashioned small alloy wrap around cleat (Like hens teeth these days, Proctors used to do a good one) should eliminate the problem.


Posted: 21/09/2009 07:33:12
By: Chris M
can someone convince me that halyard compression is a serious issue?

On my boat we hoist the main to the measurement band tie the tack string and go sailing. The tack of the sail is not pulled down at all. When we sail, the mast bends and takes out whatever tension I might have put in, and occasionally I might let the kisker go and snug the halyard back up again...

In my experience, the only time we get halyard slip is when we apply kicker, and/ or cunningham when it is really windy - but the compression is not from the halyard, it is from the cunningham and the kicker...

GGGGGG


Posted: 21/09/2009 08:32:21
By: Measurement Man
Hence the 2 cleats for the main halyard for Salcombe this year and the halyard still slipped a bit.  Thinking about a 2:1 arrangement between deck and cleat but this needs a loop in the halyard and that won't go up the hole in the mast with the present gauge of string.  If anyone can locate a source of small alloy horned cleats I would be interested, the nylon ones just disintegrate within a couple of races.


Posted: 21/09/2009 16:22:49
By: Andrew M
Ian, to answer your question: the main halyard clamcleat on the kingpost was the 3rd one we had in about 14 months of us owning Prologue. You'll also notice the number of washers bewteen cleat and kingpost to bring the cleat more in line with the halyard position. Changing the clamcleat often is the obvious answer: it does wear out and a new one does the job nicely (for a while).


Posted: 21/09/2009 17:03:26
By: Nick
Hi Ian,
When hoisting the main, drop the halyard out to the side of the cleat, don't hoist the rope through the cleat until the last few inches, only then pull it through the cleat. We have the same pull up on Cream Cracker and I've not had to change it since we fitted her out at the beginning of the year. As Nick says it took about 3 cleats before the penny dropped.
Hope that help.
Jon


Posted: 21/09/2009 19:37:22
By: Jon. S
By the way you will now have to change the cleat if its slipping! Beyond repair...Don't really think you need the washers as the problem all along was a blunt cleat.


Posted: 21/09/2009 19:43:10
By: Jon. S
Andrew has supplied the best solution which I had on my boat for many years. Mount a metal horn cleat below the cam cleat. Use the cam for pulling up the main and then tie off and lock on the metal cleat. There will be no slippage......


Posted: 22/09/2009 08:48:15
By: WP
Source of horn cleats: http://www.seaware.co.uk/Products/YS7107A-DECK-OR-MAST-CLEAT-82MM__21140.aspx
Another option: http://www.seaware.co.uk/Products/YS7164C-JAMBING-CLEAT-152MM__22005.aspx

Or, as used by some Fireballs on their "adjustable" shrouds: http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/blocks-cleats/seasure/stainless-steel-25mm-blocks-single-block-with-v-jammer213425.bhtml
Although they often have a series of knots that a) help to calibrate and b) prevent slippage once jambed.


Posted: 22/09/2009 11:38:28
By: Bing
yep - a horn cleat has served 36 well for the last 63 years, no problems!


Posted: 22/09/2009 14:15:43
By: John
Thanks for all the advice guys

I dont think our problem is as result of a poor cleat as such. I am careful to avoid dragging the halyard through it and it does bit the moment pressure is applied to it... and in normal conditions all is fine.

I'm also not a fan of wire halyards. I know from a performance perspective they offer the best solution but they are such a faf to use and tales always snap at the most inconvenient time.

I might try the metal horn, at least it will help identify how much is stretch and how much is creap... other wise I might just bite the bullet, buy 20m of dyneema and follow DaveC's advise on rigging a 2-1

Still loving the boat though.

Ian
3581
Prologue


Posted: 22/09/2009 17:10:15
By: Ian
We converted to vectran (4mm) V12 after losing a race at Salcombe Open due to terminal failure of the old wire halyard. Had to take up about 3" of pre stretch in the splices, but doesn't seem to then move any more. Carbine hook into lower loop, through deck on 2:1 with cleat on kingpost.


Posted: 22/09/2009 19:26:08
By: Andy Hay

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