Attended part of Bourne end week a few weeks ago

just noted report by chris very politically safe  report  but noted it failed to mention my disqualification by protest by chairs jackson and others on grounds of unlawful propulsuion which i think is rule 42

Although felt victimised.  It was never the less a valid protest and should remind rocketeers that protests on this gound are very possible. 

With salcombe soon upon us watch out watch out there could be a jackson about!!!!

Please note Mrs Tosh thoroughly enjoyed not the protest process for rthe first time on the club house steps  at twilight hour with two tired children. Whilst usually a peaceful and forgiving lady the sense of humour set with the sun and  wrath vented on Jackson/Downham in no uncertain terms!!!  

This did to be honest provide me with some sad pleasure but nothing in comparison to the irony and some maysay the poetic justice of the first startthe next day but perhaps someonelse should explain. 

This note is placed to genuinely bring attention to issue but can saythewhole process was highly enjoyable  save for Mrs T

Well done Tosh, you nailed one of the lackies but I can't believe you didn't take on the dark lord himself....

A most unfortunate sequence of events.  Jackson and myself defo owe Mrs Tosh a glass of white wine in sunny Salcombe.  Liam owes her several bottles though I reckon!

Not entirely convinced about the poetic justice on the last morning Mr Tosh - Rule 69 exists too!?

My view is that rules are there to be broken - leads to an interesting life! Happy to discuss this over several glasses at salcombe and looking forward to it.
I'll say nothing about Rule '69' What goes on in a boat, on or off the water is nothing to do with me..... and I'd rather not know I think! 

Sorry,and I know this is wrong but Poetic Justice (great name for a boat) gave great humour on the Monday morning. And on the name thing 'Illegal Propulsion' makes me think of a speeding octopus! - sorry, can't help but find the funny in this! The humour awoke with the  5.30am sunrise and Hannah needing a wee!

It's still a glass of something dry, wet and white though, not off the hook yet ;o) x

Dear Mrs Tosh,
If you don't want to be hanging around waiting for protests to end, teach (or nag) your man to sail by the rules. Or just tie him down in the boat so he can't pump it!

I thank you for your words of support for Mrs T.

 I havnt yet  been tied down in a boat to stop my pumpimng but i'm sure alot of MP's would love it.

In my 'defence' I would say I was not alone by far, especially and even more so the day before and if not for a gobby crew I may not of been hauled over the coals

But the point via the  protast has been made and all' even dare i say the original accuser should take heed

Tosh, as you say, you are not alone, there are several others that bend the rules beyond breaking point, but until now have not been challenged. It could be an interesting season.

What about "beach" adjudicators? It works in other classes. Saves time on protests and stress from wives/children or crews eager to head for the bar.  If there are many who break the rules and get away with it because no-one wants the bother of a protest, here is a solution.

Rockers, pumpers etc, should have instant dsq, to count in final results. Alternatively just shoot the buggers.

You should change to a Solo as we found at Carsington that it appears to be accepted practice in their fleet eg names such as 'Pumper Pete'!

Whilst trying to sail legally (and defintely no windshift) was passed by several Solos who were madly tacking to increase speed both upwind and down!

apparently the race box can do a protest on this one - and it has happened at my club - protest still to be heard - wonder what will happen!

I welcome protests for rollers/pumpers, but obviously it seems very harsh when 1 person is singled out. I do hope everyone now feels they are being watched. And don't be embarrased to follow through with a protest, it's the right thing to do.

Let's keep this up, until there becomes no need!

On shore watchers with video cameras welcome. Watch the footage over lunch, and 'name and shame' in order to encourage better behaviour in the afternoon.

I was under the impression that non-competitors cannot lodge protests, is this the case or not?

Anyone can protest.

As Voltaire said "Pour encourager les autres".

Peter Scott was observing the Olympics in Naples in 1960 when he saw Mario Capio (Italy) miss out the leeward mark in the FD class. There was a raft up. He was the only one to see him miss the mark out, protested and Mario was thrown out of the race. Yes, anyone can protest.

Just to clarify that was Peter Scott as in IYRU (Now ISAF.) Int 14's, Olympics, Sovereign 12 Metre Challenge, Ducks, Gliding, WWWF, Painting, Ice Skating, Telly etc. Renaissance man.

Actually rule 60 seems quite clear as to who can protest.  As I read it third parties cant protest but the Race Committee can if someone draws there attention to an issue - as long as the third party has no interest in the outcome.  The question is does that exclude the friend of someone further down the fleet?

Interested party is "A person who may gain or lose as a result of a protest committee�s decision, or who has a close personal interest in the decision."

This is where good old rule 69 kicks in
Rule 60 is clear that a report can come from 69.1 (a)
which states
"When a protest committee, from its own observation or a report
received from any source, believes that a competitor may have
committed a gross breach of a rule,..."
Note the words ... any source ...  

Would a gross breach of a rule would be missing out a mark and thinking no one saw, making off as if you did?

I'm not sure wobbling on the beat/run is a gross breach but that wasn't the point I was trying to make - either way it is not the person on the shore that protests but either the Race Committee or the Protest Committee.

Good news, I look forward to seeing some of the more 'physical' sailors having a little more respect for the rules in future.  
Maybe a return to the time when other competitors would 'warn' the offender that they were pushing the limits

To clarify. The race committe or protest committee can accept a report from any source and act accordingly.
They can ignore the report or they can act on the information recieved.

Yes you are correct, a boat or a race committee may protest. No one else can. But anybody can submit a report to a protest committee, who then can submit a report to the race committee, so I was just explaining a possible route.

I'm not sure either what consitute a gross breach of a rule, it would be nice to get an official explanation of what is considered gross breach.

Would continous wobbling, such that a material advantage is gained, be a gross breach?

I think I found the answer on the web, RYA guidance 2004 summerises as

• deliberately breaking a racing rule with the intention of gaining an advantage as a result

except

• an isolated instance of knowingly having broken a rule without intent to do so, but not then taking a
penalty

So a repeated instance of rule 42 breach, gaining an advantage, and not retireing of taking some form of penalty may be considered a gross breach

I thought the Peter Scott story concerned a Finn sailor at the Melbourne Olympics who was observed by Mr Scott missing out a mark!

No, it was Mario Capio in Naples. Peter Scott didn't have a camera but he did a drawing, it's in one of the many retrospective books of his life.

I was caught speeding when Gatso drew me doing 90!!

Rule 67 in the 2009-2012 Racing Rules of Sailing states that:

'...the protest committee may penalize without a hearing a boat that has broken rule 42, provided that a member of the committee or its designated observer has seen the incident..'.  

At Tamesis the OOD is a 'designated observer'.  The Rule has been publicised and acted upon, which has served to remind people that they are being watched and action will be taken, even if fellow competitors are unwilling to protest against those breaking Rule 42.

Happy to say that the small Merlin fleet at Hampton were impeccably behaved in the recent windless regatta races.  Unfortunately it only takes one to start then everybody feels they need to join in.

Rule 67 is a sailing instruction amendable rule (not many are)
"When so stated in the sailing instructions"
which means it can easily be applied, but does not apply to events by default

Sounds like im gunna have much fun crewing for you once again in salcombe Tosh!! :-)
Fortunatly i am against rocking as well so i will be keeping an eye on your movements....:-)
If anyone does enjoy a bit of rocking though, i would suggest the OK fleet as being rather suitable.  The boat's designed for it and like the solo's it is common place!...

Why would anyone want to keep an eye on Tosh's movements?

Hywel, you are hilarious!

Dear I'll be watching, I have never nagged my husband.  Point out persuasively that things need to be done in a certain way or indeed done at all maybe, but never nag! That of course is rule No 1, rule No 2 is that husbands should just do what they are asked without question but maybe that should be on another thread altogether....!

so when Peter Scott (the real one)got the best result of the week in the Champs in Abersoch - when he was actually on the M6 going home - was this a gross breach of the rules? - and should I notify the race committee?

so when Peter Scott (the real one)got the best result of the week in the Champs in Abersoch - when he was actually on the M6 going home - was this a gross breach of the rules? - and should I notify the race committee?

Absolutely - and had I been there I would have retired!! Of course the real problem was that it was not my discard but don't think it impacted too much on the top ten!! The ghost of Sparrow hangs over this!
See you for a glass at Salcombe - not sailing myself - on taxi duty bringing Holly to the seaside!