7th and 8th June |
Points to be sored - but you do need to be there ! |
Will Minima be hosting a jazz band party on the Saturday evening? I sadly missed it last year because I was unaware it was taking place. Hope to join in both Sat and Sun this weekend. Mike |
Hi Mike |
Ben, is champagne still on offer for the winner of Sunday? |
Richard, Are you going up to Minima, Champagne notwithstanding ? |
Yes John. Was planning on doing both days but can only make the Sunday now. It'll be good if you can make it as well. |
Would anyone be available to crew me in Diabolo on Saturday at Minima? My daughter/crew has a bad tummy bug and is unlikely to be fit. |
How does the river look over there? We are currently not allowed on it here. |
We managed to have a race last night at Tamesis. The stream was less than Wednesday night when the Environment Agency had issued a warning. Looks like a bit of wind tomorrow and Sunday, so should be ok. Come along and see what it's like Jeremy. |
Church bells and Salvation Army Bands on Sunday evening still? |
Crew sorted, looking forward to tomorrow. |
Thank you Richard - a Thursday eve. race at Tamesis is encouraging. Obviously we have more stream than ordered but possible 9mph wind. Anything in the north should give a run against the flow on our reach. |
Well there weren't church bells and Salvation Army bands on Sunday evening, but there was champagne, sun and sparkling sailing conditions despite the strong stream. Fortunately, as Ben commented, the wind was strong enough and in the right direction (northerly) giving everyone a run against the stream, together with a fast beat with it down river to Kingston Bridge. |
Minima YC Thames Series report on Y&Y http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=141752 |
Glad you enjoyed it the picture make me all nostalgic, pity about the Band and the Bells though, no coppers leaning on bikes either then! |
Actually, sometimes the odd policeman/woman or two do go by on their bikes. These days, though, they ride the mountain variety and wear cycling shorts and bike helmets rather than the traditional woodentop. |
Should there be a picture of someone not wearing a life jacket / buoyancy aid racing a Merlin Rocket? |
Minima Y.C. does have a clear sfaety policy which is under the direction of the R.O. The wearing of buoyancy is a matter of prevailing conditons - stream, wind, water temp etc. safety of competitors and those who may have to assist them. A compulsory buoyancy flag is available should conditions be judged to need this. This a decision based upon the prevailing conditions not the class of boat being raced - is there a problem with this, or the fundamental rules of sailing? Did 'policemean' deserve his back |
The question being whether anyone came to harm through the lack of a buoyancy aid sailing on a narrow river on a hot day. Or whether anyone can produce evidence of it being something which is so risky that compulsion is appropriate to avoid the costs to society of the rescue and the medical care which might ensue. We are not talking about motorbikes and crash helmets, I suggest dinghy sailing has an extraordinary record of safety, particularly so inland. |
I learned to sail dinghies at Minima in the 50s so as AG suggests seeing those photos brings back happy memories of long fun filled summer holidays playing on the River in our Cadets. Typical games were sailing backwards races or races without rudders, playing 'he' through the bridge arches, races with compulsory capsizes etc. No adults, no lifejackets, no H & S. No wonder Minima Cadets won two of the first three Cadet Weeks. |
Every time anyone publishes a photo that shows no buoyancy aid, there is always someone who asks the question. These people seem more interested in moaning than finding out what the SIs said at the time... |
With this kind of publicity, perhaps Minima will stop being, as Sunday's winner Alan Markham commented, "one of the Thames's best kept secrets". |
I feel that MYC is being victimised by 'Policemean'. I didn't have to look further than the rotating pics on our front page to find MR sailors without buoyancy aids!! Perhaps we can flush him out to identify himself - a helicopter pilot or perhaps RYA level 2 (Enterprise/topper)!! |
Clubs I have belonged to have all had life jackets compulsory rules. Mind you most have either been very cold water or tidal clubs. However,rivers are dangerous places too. A crack on the head from a boom of a capsizing boat will render the strong swimmer incapable and the shock of falling into cold water can cause an involuntary intake of breath which would coincide with the head going under. There is also the effect of the cold shock on people of a certain age or with undiagnosed health problems. |
Whilst i'm certainly not advicating never wearing Buoyancy aids, on the other side of the coin i've had a couple of accidents that wouldn't have happened had i or my crew NOT been wearing one. |
BAs only 'aid' you, they dont make you float like a life jacket does. With or without a BA a knock on the head is a knock on the head, a BA wont help. And it wont make the water any less cold either. |
Unfortunately it's no longer a personal decision, much as I at any rate would wish it to be, having taken part in a Merlin Rocket Silver Tiller Race where a man died, (Admitedly not from lack of a Life Jacket or bouancy aid.) the effect of a death from one of our numbers is remembered by all who took place in the Thames S. C. Silver Tiller in May 1963. The memory reminds me that it is not just the victim and his/her nearest and dearest, these events effect when I put on a lifejacket, I concur with Mags and the perceived wisdom of the RNLI et al Lifejackets are safer the self inflating ones are good and whenever I have tested mine (At the end of the cylinders suggested life.) have worked absolutely. Much more comfortable and less intrusive to wear than a BA too. |
Jonathan/Policeman, |
The point is that we are ambassadors for our sport. |
So presumably a photo of people sailing a boat where wearing a bouyancy aid is their own choice is a good advertisement for a class where your own good judgement is encouraged. That's not a bad thing. |
Well it’s nearly the longest day, and the sun will be moving back to the south and nights getting longer. It’s time to sort the Christmas cards and think on the Christmas Turkey |
Aside from Chris P's/Policeman's argument about the wearing of BAs, the photo published with the Y&Y report tells a very important story in itself - the moment when Mike Stephen's chances of winning the Eric Archer Memorial Trophy disappeared, along with the rudder pintel on his boat's transom. |
Sorry, meant Chris J/Policeman, not Chris P. |
Will Olympic rowers be wearing bouancy aids in China, countless millions will be watching on television...? Next you'll be wanting us to wear a BA when we walk across a bridge. Baah |
Jesus!!! (dont recall him wearing a BA) |
but he didn't need one, or the ability to swim!!! |
Get a grip on reality people, this thread is beginning to sound like an American Bible group meeting. |
My point is that the victims of tragedies heart attacks or whatever are of little consequence to the victims it's all over for them it's the effect on those left behind and witnessing it that is harsh. Incendtaly the late Nicholas Robinson of Hamble River SC was also on the council of ROSPA and was fond of quoting that more people were drowned in cars than boats if that is still true today I do not know. |
The car on the tow path does not seem to have any flotation equipment either! What would happen if the driver's foot slipped and the car ended up in the river? |
And what if the driver had his seat belt on as well? |
Many years ago Keith and Jean Steel from Hollingworth (I think) very nearly drowned in their car at Putney. It was dark when their Ford Cortina hit one of the balks of timber deposited on the road by a high tide, they veered off the embankment road and ran down the steep slope into the water. If by chance they had been wearing lifejackets they might have had even greater difficulty leaving their car and avoiding drowning than they did. |
We always wear our buoyancy aids, even if the race officer or SI's don't require it. Personal choice, even despite a capsize solely due to the spinnaker pole hooking helm's BA during a gybe (causing excellent instant safety boat response from a senior instructor on shore!) |
Oh, and although it is up to the race officer, hanging up the "lifejackets compulsory" notice is usually the first automatic task of everyone's duty day - done without thinking about it! |
At what point do you 'automatically' say, "I want both safety boats out and two people in both boats - tell the sailing sec. and that other guy to put their merlins away, they are needed in the launch. And whilst you are at it, tell those other two boats that they are too inexperienced and to 'bugger off' its too windy!" |
In the 50s the only lifejackets available for Cadets was the official kapock filled Cadet one which we had to wear at Cadet Week. At Minima the Cadets refused to wear those bulky orange horrors so every Cadet sailor had to demonstrate they could swim the full length of the old landing stage fully clothed and, if I remember correctly, at least part of it underwater. In those days most children were taught to swim at school and I don't remember losing any! |
I think we all agree, swimming isn't the issue, the issues are the circumstances when swimming isn't an option:- |
Re political correctness/H+S. though we should all be aware of the law, if your SI's do not compel the wearing of a buoyancy aid there is no legal requirement. My point earlier was exactly contrasting the position on crash helmets/seat belts where compulsion is appropriate from buoyancy aids where it is not. A lot of the perception of the nanny state is from people assuming they should do or not do certain things from the fear of prosecution rather than the actual existence of laws and prevalence of prosecution under those laws. The British legal system has a concept of "reasonableness". |
Perhaps all those who weren't able to attend MYC's Vintage/Thames Series Merlin weekend who have commented on this thread (whether for or against the compulsory use of BAs) would consider attending next year's event and express their preference on the water. The more, the merrier. Even better, bring your vintage Merlins to Thames SC this Saturday and continue the debate there. |
Well said Richard,lets face it he was the only one and he wasn't on the water for long.What this thread's about is the super day's sailing everyone had at Minima.Excellent conditions, organisation and close competitive racing.See you all next year (with lifejackets on,of course)for a glass of champers! |
It is simply bad form to bare your torso in public. |
Whilst about cycle helmets "King Boris" has got it right I think and it applys to Life Jackets even Bouancy Aids just as well. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/17/do1701.xml |
I want to make a comment, but we are so off piste perhaps someone should start a 'Nanny State' thread (not me!) |
As he's Mayor of London and being as MYC is in the Royal London Borough of Kingston upon Thames, maybe we could try persuading King Boris to award the prizes next year. ;) |
In BA and helmet just in case he gets knocked on the head. |
Sailing my Solo, I find a BA and a "bump hat" from B & Q (£9.99) a good investment! |
I can't believe I am reading all this "bola bola". I wear a buoyancy aid all the time - except at Salcombe when it is windless and hot. In other words I follow Boris's (Boris J southerner not Boris H northerner) advice, assess the risk and act accordingly. Tonight on BBC South East there was a story of one of their correspondents sailing round Britain. He had sailed from the Medway to Newcastle and he wasn't wearing a lifejacket in any of the shots. Should we all write to the BBC? Should we worry? No - lets go sailing. |