Topic : HELP

I am looking at buying a merlin and joining our local sailing club which launches of a beach on the south coast. we are looking for some advice on what boat might best suit us. we are relatively experinced sailors with a crew weight of 14 stone and helm 9 stone, although we havent sailed for a while. we have looked at the summer wine and nsm 2 and 4. we have around £1000 to spend and looking to compete at club level. we would appreciate some advice

Posted: 28/04/2008 19:40:01
By: helen
Wines need a light helm and can nose dive,but at 23st your on top of the weight. 2s carry weight better, and are good for inland, I would go for a NSM 4 for sea sailing. 
We have had a number of different designs and found the Design Info spot on.
Good luck and welcome to the Merlins

Posted: 28/04/2008 21:05:23
By: Bros
At a budget of £1000 I'd suggest that condition and equipment spec / kit list are probably more important than hull shape.  However any of the Morrison NSM variants, Summer Wine or Gnome should be suitable.  

Regarding nose diving - the original owner of my previous boat 3546 Gilt Complex (Let it Ride) found she was quite prone to nose diving, but I never experienced any problems with this even in extreme conditions. However, I only ever sailed her with a new rules long pole and larger spinnaker, so suspect the new rules kit lifts the bow more. Wines did have a reputation for nose diving, but I wonder if this still the case with a new rules spinnaker?

Posted: 28/04/2008 23:04:29
By: Dave Lee
Not to start a massive debate, but as an aside, I've heard it firmly said on another forum:

"Spinnakers don't lift the bow in any circumstances, its a popular myth. They can lift the *boat* but they depress the bow."

Actually, what am I saying? You lot will love to have a massive debate about this....

Posted: 28/04/2008 23:14:22
By: Mags
Thanks for prompt replies already. Feel free to continue the debate as i am finding the information tremendously helpful.
Regarding the nosediving problem how serious a problem is this? Are we talking along the lines of just a dip accompanied by a sudden stop or is it more a swimming type suituation?

Posted: 29/04/2008 11:10:40
By: Helen
It's all about the moment!

Posted: 29/04/2008 11:55:33
By: DaveC
We're talking about the worst case sticking the bow in and tripping over it and going for a swim.  As long as you are careful (weight right back, don't hang around by the mast getting the pole on) it's not as if the Summer Wine plummets down the mine as soon as you round the windward mark, just it is a bit easier to get it to do it than NSM 2's & 4's, you still have to get something wrong or be in the wrong place when hit by a gust.

I thought that the spinnaker did provide a lifting force, but I can see what the argument is. The only way it can exert a force on the boat is through the sheet and guy and those are attached too far back to lift the bow. However, on a windy run the force is exerted forward of both the centre of buoyancy of the planing hull and also forward of the centre of gravity of the boat with the helm and crew sat right aft, so the bows will be lifted.

Posted: 29/04/2008 12:34:24
By: Andrew M
I had a Summer Wine (called Summer Wine 3090) when I was a teenager. I weighed about 9stone and my Dad crewed me and he was about 14stone. We sailed her in Salcombe and found that she was prone to nose diving occasionally but found that if we both got our backsides aft it wasn't much of a problem. Dad wasn't too keen on swimming so we didn't capsize much... never tripped her in becuase of a nose dive anyway! I'd definately recommend the Summer Wine...
Hope that helps

Posted: 29/04/2008 13:34:38
By: Lucy B
I had a Summer Wine; the infamous "Blow Job" which in more skilled hands hoovered around the front of the fleet. However I had no problems doing OK with light crews. Then, at a hairy Abersoch Nationals I broke my crew and picked up one young, big, strong Andy Dalby on the beach with a broken boat. We went like hell upwind but down the mine in a startlingly short time at the gybe mark. I'd recommend the NSM4 if you can find one.

Posted: 29/04/2008 21:19:25
By: Mike Fitz
PS: Andrew, the spinny also pulls horizontal on the halyard way up the mast as well as up on the guy and sheet. I would have thought all these combine to depress the bow. Nontheless the increased horsepower makes the hull go faster and plane thus, combined with the craven crew galloping behind the hoop, will in the right hands, keep the bow up

Posted: 29/04/2008 21:26:55
By: Mike Fitz
The pole eye must give some lift.

All my boats have been noticably wetter on a two sail reach compared with a three sail reach.

Posted: 29/04/2008 21:47:48
By: Chris M
This is because the 2 sail reach is either due to being too tight and the wind is blowing the spray in your lovely face, or you are too wimpy to put the kite up in a beam or broad strong wind so your crew is sitting out miles to save his life and once again your fizzog gets it.

Posted: 29/04/2008 22:02:30
By: Mike Fitz
Chris I don't think the pole eye does give lift as the pole is in compression, substantially so on a reach.  I stick with my assertion that the reason it lifts is because the CoG and CoB have both moved aft and the angle of the sheet and guy is upwards - a piece of string can only exert a force in the direction it's running.


Posted: 30/04/2008 10:52:14
By: Andrew M
Regarding the spinaker aurgument (I don't know the answer to the main question), don't concern yourselves with the 'interal' forces in the rig - look at the boat at a whole (a free-body diagram in engineering speak). The spinaker pulls forward at the top of the boat, and drag pulls back at the bottom. This causes a 'rolling forward' turning moment, pushing the bow down.

Posted: 30/04/2008 17:47:11
By: James 3079
Ever had to much slack in the pole downhaul / snodger?  What happens when it's released for a gybe in a blow (or it snaps)?  The spinnaker pole goes skywards.....

Posted: 30/04/2008 19:38:03
By: Yeah, but....
Isn't the key here that the up and down forces are pretty small compared to the forward, or forward and sideways forces. Hence this extra power causes the boat to plane, the more wind  - the more power  = faster ... the further aft the bow wave moves .... seeminingly lifting the nose ... maybe?

Posted: 30/04/2008 22:15:01
By: Alan F
It's called Dynmaic Lift of the hull and also the Spinnaker balances the boat more in stronger winds the troubles come at  the begining and end not during!

Posted: 01/05/2008 09:36:48
By: Al
3390 for £699 an NSM4 looks good value if your still looking for a boat Helen its on the secondhand list .

Posted: 01/05/2008 11:25:32
By: jeremy


To Reply, please join/renew membership.

Owners Association

Developed & Supported by YorkSoft Ltd


Merlin Rocket Owners Association