MERLIN ROCKET FORUM

Topic : Square topped hoop?

Having deckstepped my boat I now want to change the round topped hoop to a square topped device. No catalogues seem to show these. Where can I buy one and how much do they cost please? Also I have noticed that some of them have traveller tracks on but others have what appears to be a large shackle sliding on a tube across the top. Does anyone have any comments on these two systems?


Posted: 27/09/2007 17:25:58
By: Richard S
I got one by advertising on this forum. It didnt have a track so I am going to use the shackle method. There are pics on this site on the rigging section that show you how to set it up. The track I'm sure is better, but the shackle seems to be simple and cheap to implement.

Its a retrofit for me as the boat was converted to a strop system before I bought it and I plan to do it this winter so I cant yet comment on how it works. However I have posted elsewhere here that I find that I am always catching the tiller extension in the strop and also want the ability to travel up in light air conditions to centre the boom.

I think Winder boats will sell you a new one if you cant find one second-hand. Mine is certainly ex Winder and even has a drawing by the man himself.

Cheers, John


Posted: 27/09/2007 18:35:06
By: JohnB (3404)
Go for a harken track and car - it is far better than the sliding shackle method.  I converted mine a few years ago.

Also, if you know anyone going to the States, you can order online in US and get it delivered to a US address at less than half the cost in the UK.


Posted: 27/09/2007 19:04:45
By: RichardT
Use the 'search' box (on the right above the list of topics) to find other comments about hoops in the past - it has been discussed several times.

This photo gallery shows a brand-new Winder hoop, and there are a few shots where you can see the ropes that operate it.

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/default.asp?folder=gallery/rigging_guide/3683

Posted: 28/09/2007 09:45:12
By: Mags
This gallery shows the sliding-shackle version.

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/default.asp?folder=gallery/rigging_guide/3489

Posted: 28/09/2007 09:46:01
By: Mags
I had the sliding shackle on Armed Forces. Functional, uncomplicated and cheap.

Obviously there is more friction than the track and car though.


Posted: 28/09/2007 10:51:54
By: Chris M
The system shown in the link works well as I had a similar set up on my old boat 3478. Basically it was a largish ball block that had been bastardised with a neat little stainless bracket fixed onto the block which allows the block to stay on top of the hoop and fix your main block off. All rather difficult to explain. I can email you a picture of 3478 with this arrangement if it helps?  I know that 3539 and 3549 have a similar set up assuming the owners haven't changed to a car system. The shackle set up is ok if the rig is not under load but is an absolute pig to use when fully loaded due to friction irrespective of a ball block purchase system lower down.

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/view_photo.asp?folder=gallery/rigging_guide/general&file=ct_top_view.jpg

Posted: 28/09/2007 12:01:46
By: Richard Battey
Interesting the photo of 3489 that Mags directs you to in one of the responses above shows the sliding shackle version which I ditched shortly after as the friction was much too great to pull the shackle over when under load.  With the track, you can easily pull the car over while the mainsail is fully loaded.


Posted: 28/09/2007 13:13:35
By: RichardT
A sketch of my earlier dreadful explanation attached.

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/view_photo.asp?folder=gallery/building_and_repairs&file=homemade_hoop.jpg

Posted: 28/09/2007 18:03:09
By: Richard Battey
The friction problem with the shackle is usually the way it is rigged. On Richard's photo the rope that pulls it over is tied to the bottom of the shackle. This will never work becuase the rope will cause it to jam. The pulleys are unfortunately lined up so that it is impossible to do it any other way short of using a track.

The way it was rigged on Armed Forces involved the shackle doing up with the screw in bit on top. Onto this was also attached the mainsheet pulley on another shackle the pin off the sliding shackle fastened both. The ropes that pull it over weere attached to the pin, and the pulleys were mounted so that the pull was totally straight right on top of the hoop - this is crucial. The idling pulley was attached to the front of the sliding shackle.

I realise a description is not very good but i haven't owned the boat for 3 years and believe that the susequant owner put a track on. I don't know why, the shackle always worked fine for me and all previous owners over the boats 14 year life even under load.

It's all about getting the pull at the right angles and the blocks lined up. A track may work if things are out of line, but it will wear out quickly and is expensive to maintain when it breaks. My experience with hoops and tracks is that they actually like a little friction and seem to cleat more easily - Storm Cloud has a very smooth track, so smooth that it doesn't always cleat on the new side because the rope that uncleats the old side doesn't have enough load on it to pull through. Never had that problem with the shackle!

The big pully is a good compromise. It should run smoother, is cheap to replace and is not too smooth to work!


Posted: 28/09/2007 19:02:49
By: Chris M
Usual good advice from Chris.  Just to add my bit that with Heaven Sent the Harken track along the top of the hoop is very likely identical to Storm Cloud and there is a definite problem in light wind when there is not enough tension in the traveller rope to reliably uncleat the lazy side and cleat off the windward one.  The old acronym KISS springs to mind, get the leads of things absolutely right, use the odd s/s lined bullseye here and there and the systems  work correctly.


Posted: 01/10/2007 14:25:08
By: Andrew M
For a while I was too tight to replace the life expired traveller on Smoked Salmon. I took the track and fittings off the horizontal on the hoop and tried a large round shackle but it was very hard to get the angles right and it kept on locking off rather than sliding - very frustrating and not fast.  

In the end,I filed, wet and dry sanded and then t-cut the horizontal element of the hoop to get a smooth polished finish, and then rigged a tight loop of 4mm vectran (Snake swallowing tail fashion - double thickness effectively) around it and attached all the tackle to that. It was a bit of a fiddle to do, but it worked very well for the 3 or 4 months that it was on and with no wear at all.


Posted: 01/10/2007 17:51:28
By: The Old Trout

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