Hi all,

Would anybody like to share any opinions/experience about the Winderbox design?	Having just read the info in the design giode (below) I'm slightly disturbed by the phrases 'in expert hands' and '23 stone'!  In my case helm and crew together weigh 19-20 st and were fairly inexperienced.  In the last year or so we've been holding our own on the river Trent against N12, GPs, Albacores and Lasers but given our portsmouth number we should be streaking away.  Any advice appreciated!

From the design guide:
Winderbox 1975
Development of Late Night Extra with increased beam aft, deeper hull and stem and the chine reduced again.  Beam 7'1".  Very fast in all conditions in expert hands but difficult to sail well.  Suitable for up to 23 stone.  There are several variants of this design.  One early example won a Championship race at Abersoch in 1978 and seemed to be heading for a place in the first three, but failed to complete the required five races.  Winner of the Silver Tiller in 1978, 6th in the Inland Championships in 1976 and 2nd in 1978.

It basically means that it's not the easiest of boats to get the best performance out of, but very rewarding of skillfull sailing. 

I've never sailed a Winderbox, but had a Hexagon for a few years which is also described as fast in expert hands. It was very tippy with little initial stability which made it hard to sail upright and very easy to capsize. As i got better, funnily enough so the boat got faster!!

As for crew weight, in primarily light winds on the Trent it doesn't really matter if you're light.

I agree with Chris. I had 3099, Back Seat Driver, which I bought from Peter Robinson. After a Lark it was definitely more tippy than subsequent Merlins I had, like various NSMs, but I soon learned to keep it in the 'groove', and then it went well. It was particularly good in the light stuff, slipping along when other designs seemed to stall. But hard work in a blow. Master it, and all other designs will seem tame !

Nick

Nick, 

Are you still associated with Frensham ? If so, you may remember I was the "commodore" of the sailing club for our erstwhile mutual employer and you arranged a regatta at Frensham for us.

Cheers, John

Mark, Sorry to hi-jack your thread.....

Hi Mark
My Brother Owned this boat in the late 80's, and I sailed it many time while I was between boats.
The boat design is very fast upwind, and planed earlyer than nsmII's but needs the gentle touch on the broad reaches and runs but not what I call a killer,(ie Bad company, CT,) best safe option is to have the kite up down wind.
I sailed it with 19-20 stone and she went like a dream.
Its like all sports, Practice makes perfect, and on the river, it will go upwind like a dream.
Come to the training at Rutland, for help to make sure she is setup correctly ( I will be there).
Dave F 3542

Thanks for all your comments!  I'll keep practicing.
Unfortunantly I can't make the Rutland training-  :-(

DaveF,

For that particular boat, can you remember the right position for the mast foot?  We've noticed we can't point as high as other boats e.g. RS200 and N12, which seems very wrong!  Suspect there may not be sufficient rake on, but the shroud tensioners are at maximum.  Any tips?  Also I still haven't managed to get a copy of the MR book so if anybody would be kind enough to share the magic numbers for a winderbox design, that would be much appreciated!

Mark
I can't remember, to the fact i don't think i ever checked it, the person to talk to will be Guy Winder, as he set the boat up for my brother, when he sailed at Hollingworth aprox 20 years ago.

pointing is more to do with mast and sail shape, if you have deck stepped/ carbon mast design sails on a hog stepped mast, this could be causing the problem, or if theay are the correct sails for the hog mast how old are they?
check the spreader lengths and defletion, is the mast upright (port/starboard)etc.
do you know how much mast rake you have, (boat flat using a spirit level and measure from goose neck to main haliard ( plum bob effect)
I used to use 4-6 inches as a rule.
Have fun
Dave F

Dave,
Thanks for the tips.  The sail is old, but I think it is meant for a hog-stepped mast. It came with the boat anyway.  I've not actually measured the rake, but I will now.  I never adjusted the spreaders, as I assume the previous owner knew more than I about such things!
Cheers
Mark