you name the time and place, well be there,

I'd like to be there in either as i am a former owner of both, got to be honest though the merlin boys would kick arse!

As the Phantom Web site always seems to be down, but there are a few Phantom sailors that visit this site, a simple question, is 13.5 stone and short not fat or tall enough to have a reasonable go in a Phantom, is the new rig depowerable as a Merlin is?

Not that I'm thinking of deserting Merlins, but a single hander comes in useful for those days when you haven't got a crew. Whilst I have a Laser in my stable, I don't enjoy sailing Lasers.

"got to be honest though the merlin boys would kick arse!"

You mean like they did during the Blithfield Barrel last year. 

I grant you that a Merlin eventually won the event, but only because the Phantoms did not do enough races to qualify for the series. 


Anyway why all the stress about yardsticks. Lets just accept that handicap racing is flawed and move on.

enough said.

Hi Alan, i have both boats so feel qualified to answer your question. 

Whole heartedly "Yes" -  with the carbon rig you can de-power, and you would not be considered too light for a Phantom. There were many at the Nationals that were between 12 and 13.5 stone

For sheer acceleration alone its an experience that you cannot beat, especially on a few waves.

Cant be compared to a Laser.

I appreciate this is a Merlin forum so will await the flames !!!

13.5 stone and short is not enough for a phantom F3 and above, its just too big however if you dont fancy a laser there is a Solution.  No kidding, abrand new boat a baby Phantom  designed for just that sort of weigh. produced by Evolution (andy Elliot and others) it will probably catch on. sold over 25 I'm told.

If want to see Merlins vs Phantoms come to Shoreham. Our fleet upto 9 phantoms this year with 8 attending the nationals. 13 stone is very minimum weight I'd say. Have few 'light' boys at Shoreham and they do struggle up wind in a blow. 15-17 stone is probably the ideal weight across wind range.

Agree Phantoms have good handicap, though Merlins sail off a 1000 at Shoreham. Usually pretty close on corrected with the good guys.

Well Hmmm, to be honest with i have sailed both classes for a long time, the top Merlin boys would to be honest destroy the phantoms, i loved my phantom and it is still my favourite class, but on handicap the top merlin folk against the top phantoms folk there is not much of a contest.

Alan,

As a second boat/single hander why not consider the OK? Carbon rig easily depowered, good all rounder. I enjoy mine but not half as much as the merlin! Don't have to worry about a crew though!

ps. if you are ever stuck for a crew for 2007 could help out every now and then.

Don't you need a crash helmet to sail an OK :-)

What are they like on the sea?

No, no helmet just need to be a little flexible!

Have not been on the sea yet with my OK, more of a lake bod myself. Terry Curtis might be able to advise you on the pros and cons relating to OK sea sailing or......Dave Lee (3546) who also has an OK down at Starcross, not sure if he has it on the water yet.

Well Russ - "on handicap the top merlin folk against the top phantoms folk there is not much of a contest"

Just like there was no contest at Blithfield last year eh ?

WHATEVER - Its really not important.

What matters is that we all go sailing in our chosen classes and enjoy ourselves.

Like you said earlier, a merlin won in the end !!  The fact that hantoms didnt do enough races is irrelevant

now you've taken the 'p' out of phantom!!!!!!!!!!

Russ, You are dead right there. But in the races that the Phantoms did compete in, the Merlins certainly didnt like the outcome.

The Phantom National Champion is 14 stone

There are not many in the fleet over 16 stone, those that are over are unfit, so it does not make much difference.

There is one guy at 12 stone who sails with a Wavelength rig and is fast.

Try one Alan, you may like it !!!

if u think it would be that easy how about giving phantoms  a 10 second start, ever tried getting past one with that kitey thingy up!!!!

or even a team race,

Ask Tom Stewart and Will Gulliver they'll give you a fair judgement.

There are a few red hot sailors in the Phantoms - I wouldn't get into dissing the sailors. The phantom is so much lighter that the get up and go is in Phantom's favour.

Rs300 boy, you are forgetting that i sail a phantom so why would i "Diss" myself??? also i know will Gulliver and have raced against or have been well beaten by him in the past so i know how good he is.  I never once dissed either boat or there ssailors so lets not take this out of context, i just put my opinion accross however wrong it maybe.  Phantom sailors are generally very good sailors, but i refer to one of my previous posts on handicap i think the merlin (Sailed by the top folks) would win.  I can only speak from my experience from sailing in both fleets.

Alan, if you fancy a go in an OK i sail one when i am not in the Merlin. Great fun and if yopu are fit and can duck quickly you will be ok without the helmet. Must admit though i was considering a Phantom myself. Being 15 stone and 6'1 thought i would be perfect for one.

Jeremy i would recomend a Phantom, they are great.

ok, so if you merlins would win so easily why are you bleating about the handicaps then !!!!

Whatever class you sail people bleat about handicaps! Check out the Y&Y forum and a thread "how do you sleep at night?"  There is like a 3 page thread of people winging about the merlin handicap!  and noone said "win easily"  Why are there so many people trying to stir an arguement up here???!!

Of any interest!!  Lots of other sailing clips too which seem to be fun

oh! i seeeeeeeeee! you sail them upside down....silly me!

Who gives a toss.  You only make the boats so light to compensate for the fact you are so fat. Phantom -  Designed for people with no self control. So, go eat a burger and see you on the water for the boxing day race.

phantom champ beats merlin rocket champ at the endeavour.  it must be the py.

Good to see lots of Merlin Sailors in the results (sorry not that familiar with Phantom sailors names) and an excelent result from ex-chair as 3rd crew.