Topic : My batton sticks out the pocket and my wife keeps complaining

When the batton will not flick back after tacking and we wobble the boattrying to flick it over.As its an old sail and boat,should the batton stick out at all,i have cut off an inch already.Is it because it is to stiff.any advice

Posted: 21/04/2006 22:23:10
By: pete nash
Is this about self circumcision or sailing.  Either see  a sailmaker or a Rabbi.  Either way it will bring tears to your eyes.

Posted: 23/04/2006 07:02:49
By: MR578
It tends to back the top of the sail even in a blow,so it is definatly the sail.I have tried a bit of extra kicker and adding tension to the rig to no avail.Should the batton stick out at all?

Posted: 23/04/2006 18:25:43
By: pete nash
Yes, the batten should stick out about an inch or two, next tie it in dead tight, should have about quarter inch of play. To tack it easliy needs to be as lose as possible without coming out of it's holder.

Posted: 23/04/2006 19:50:35
By: Alan F
you'll find  many threads about this, the basics are no tension in light winds, roll tack & pump/flick. If the sail is old or very full try a stiffer batten which will compress less and hense be easier to flick . you could of course lend your wife to an experienced helm to learn the technique but that might be more for you to contend with!  In answer to the first question yes it shoul stick out 20-40mm.have fun Barry

Posted: 23/04/2006 19:51:42
By: Barry Watkin
correction - next tie it in dead tight - was meant to be 'never tie in dead tight'

Posted: 23/04/2006 21:36:37
By: Alan F
One solution to this lies in coming to Rutland for the training.

Worked for me!

Posted: 23/04/2006 22:39:40
By: Jon
Should the top batten be tapered or plain and does it make a difference.  There seem to be so many types.

Posted: 24/04/2006 09:35:45
By: Garry R
I believe plain. Tapered would pull the draft forward which I don't think is what you would want.

Posted: 24/04/2006 10:45:47
By: Alan F
I'm on my way to Rutland. Hope I am not the only vintage merlin on the start line at'2180'!

Posted: 28/04/2006 17:27:16
By: pete nash
I have seen loads of comments about battens not flicking, the stiffness of battens, whether they should have tension or not, whether they stick out of leech or not and on reflection have come up with some questions.  If the batten is stiff and there is no tension then as you come about on a tack the batten should straighten at the head to wind point Under its own stiffness) and as the wind comes onto the other side of the sail the batten should curve in the opposite direction to the previous tack.  But it doesn't always do that.  Is it because it is "set" in the previous curve because it is gripped by the batten pocket right through the tack?  If the batten pocket slides over the batten during the tack it would allow the batten to straighten under its natural stiffness.  So the question is would a hefty spray of PTFE on the batten be an advantage?  Alternatively I may be talking rubbish so if this is the case let me know.

Posted: 12/05/2006 10:24:34
By: Garry R
When you say "no tension", what do you mean? If you mean tied off very loosly with say 1cm of play when the sail is not up the mast, then the batten string will go tight and there will still be compression in the batten as soon as you hoist the sail up the mast. 

If your top batten assumes a curve when you're sailing (which hopefully it does!) then rest assured it's under compression.

If you didn't tie the batten in at all, then in theory the sail would crumple and gather down the batten until you had maybe 18" or so of batten sticking out. At this point, the leech loads in the sail would be running straight from head to clew without inducing any compression forces into the batten, and the sail would stop working down the batten (which would be straight).

In practice, the sail wouldn't work that far down the batten due to the stiffness of the cloth and friction.

Posted: 12/05/2006 10:36:34
By: super-surfer (sailmaker)
Sorry, to answer your questions:

"But it doesn't always do that. Is it because it is "set" in the previous curve because it is gripped by the batten pocket right through the tack?"

- No. The batten is under compression, regardless of how loose the string is. The mast is pushing back at its front end, and the leech (via the tying off string) is pulling it forwards at its aft end.

"So the question is would a hefty spray of PTFE on the batten be an advantage?"

- I don't think so. The friction between the batten and the pocket isn't the issue. The main factors involved in getting the batten to flick are: 1) the stiffness of the batten and 2)the fullness of the sail.

Posted: 12/05/2006 10:47:07
By: super-surfer (sailmaker)
When I say no tension I mean a small gap between the end of the batten and the tie in and no the batten can't slip out.  There are little creases around the batten pocket when the boat is sailing.  The sail is certainly curved when set and it's in the light stuff that it won't flip. Guess that learning a hefty roll tack is the only answer Thanks for your help.

Posted: 12/05/2006 10:51:41
By: Garry R
As long as you dont break parts of rule 42.

Posted: 12/05/2006 12:33:27
By: The Judge
Always thought the old pre 1960 rules were right when "Fair Sailing" was rule 1.

Posted: 13/05/2006 10:55:04
By: Ancient Geek
Rule 1. Safety.
Rule 2 Fair sailing.
From then on No Poofters!

Posted: 13/05/2006 20:20:39
By: The Judge
Are there still any who sail MR's there were a couple but anno domini...........

Posted: 15/05/2006 10:59:12
By: Ancient Geek
Dodgy ground!!!!

Posted: 15/05/2006 20:35:55
By: Barry Watkin
RS 100, 200 300 400, yes but surely, not in the Merlin Rocket class.

Posted: 15/05/2006 21:57:54
By: The Judge


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