MERLIN ROCKET FORUM

Topic : Spinnaker halyard

My spinnaker Halyard system is rubbish! anyone have any pictures of some more modern systems or diagrams.  My hoists seem to be very very slow.  any advice greatfully recieved


Posted: 06/02/2006 19:41:32
By: RussHopkins3374
All Merlins I know of, with a spin chute, have a continuous halyard from the head of the spin, down the mast and turn across the top of the c/board case through a cleat, continues back under the thwart, around the back of the c-board case towards the bow, up through the spin chute to a retrieval patch on the spin. This system only is a 1-1.

Assuming that you have a spin chute, then the only way to improve your hoists is in technique rather than systems. Refer to the guides link below.

But in principal, 1. prepare before the hoist, corner out, pole on
2. the crew hoists, leaning over the cleat, hand over hand, with bing arm movements my arm-span is about 2 metres, so around three movements should get it up, so about 3 seconds (I wish), and with luck I can hit the helm in the face whilst he/she is bending down putting the snodger on

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/library/how_to/spinnaker1.htm

Posted: 06/02/2006 20:12:36
By: Alan F
Not sure what 'bing' arm movements are though.


Posted: 06/02/2006 20:13:33
By: Alan F
Cheers alan, from the sounds of it my system is the same as the rest, i need to make sure the line is clear as some times it gets fould.  but i think the main point is to get a crew that can or learn myself the quickest and most effective hoisting method


Posted: 06/02/2006 23:23:28
By: RussHopkins3374
Make sure the halyards aren't twisted around one another inside the mast - very slow, lots of friction when under tension.

To test this, you have to lie the mast down, put both the main, and jib halyards into tension (mimicking the situation in use) and then pull each end of the spinny halyard. If it doesn't run really freely, and the sheaves at each end are running smoothly, then there is likely to be a twist.

The only option is to un ravel completely and re thread.


Posted: 07/02/2006 00:04:16
By: The Old trout
Ditto above, also a can of 'Mac lube' or Holts teflon? spray on the chute area & centre of the kite make life easier especlally if you have an old or non silicon finished kite.


Posted: 07/02/2006 07:04:40
By: Barry Watkin
If you are hoisting yourself, stand up in the centre of the boat, tiller between legs, grab the halyard near the thwart and pull hand over hand, i.e. us both hands for hoisting, knees for steering, again 'big' arm movements.


Posted: 07/02/2006 07:31:16
By: Alan F
As most things size does matter in this case, "length" (Of the line!) is critical too long and its a real buggers muddle too short and it messes up the kite. As everyone else has said you need to pull like buggery both up and down.


Posted: 07/02/2006 07:57:01
By: Ancient Geek
Useful thread.  Two more spinnaker questions from a numpty (Scots for thicko)

1. Anything particular to watch out for if using a new size spinnaker over a high tank?

2. Any suggestions for keeping the spinnaker tidy when down? It seems to come a long way back into the crew's foot space. I've read somewhere about running the downhaul through a ring attached to a length of bungee chord which is secured under the deck near the bow. When you drop the spinnaker, the bungee initially stretches with the down haul and then pulls some at least of the spinnaker back onto the top of the tank. It sounds to me like a recipe for a cat's cradle?


Posted: 07/02/2006 09:32:59
By: Bill
I suspect Alan's arm span is more realisticaly 1.6 m not 2.


Posted: 07/02/2006 09:53:08
By: exaggeration
Russ,  This is an excellent example of something you could get sorted at Rutland.


Posted: 07/02/2006 10:39:11
By: Jon
I'm not sure about hoisting yourself - petard seems a little strong for one's own spinnaker attempts, but...

Tom and I have an elasticated ring that our downhaul runs through which tidies the kite up on a late drop sufficiently to prevent it from getting stuck in the jib blocks when sheeting in the jib. It's worked faultlessly all year, until last weekend when I kept managing to pull the spinnaker through the ring! So, more development warranted - smaller ring or a bobble probably. You can help out with the development process!


Posted: 07/02/2006 11:34:34
By: deepy
Would love to go to Rutland but i have no crew for the new season yet.  What dates are the traing days on?


Posted: 07/02/2006 12:54:40
By: RussHopkins3374
Yes, the ring works....as long as the knot on the sail nipple doesnt get stuck in it! 

Do all you can to make sure the halyard runs freely on its own first. Obviously when stuck in the chute, or blown by the wind, the sail will pull against you, but you dont want extra friction from the blocks if you can help it.

This link (3 pages) may help with general spinnaker handling...

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/library/how_to/spinnaker1.htm

Posted: 07/02/2006 13:39:54
By: Mags
Hornets seem to all have the ring and bungee system. A ring either too small for the knot or big enough so the knot doesn't get stuck seems to be the best way forward. One of those white plastic Holt rings do the job...


Posted: 07/02/2006 14:24:41
By: Blackie
My arm span, including my chest, finger tip to finger tip, is 6ft 6 inches, which in new money is 2meters, I use it often when meausring up things! But given sub-optimal stance and the fact I can't handle spin halyards with the outstretch tips of my fingers I'll accept 1.6 meters as a usable estimate.


Posted: 07/02/2006 15:08:46
By: Alan F
And how long is it from bow to halyard sheave (i.e. how much rope do you need to pull to hoise the spinny) ?


Posted: 08/02/2006 09:51:31
By: Mags
Pythagorous should give an approximation.


Posted: 08/02/2006 11:20:07
By: Ancient Geek
Oh for those who do not know it here is Pythagorus Theorum
There was an Indian Chief, and he had three squaws, and kept them in three
teepees. When he would come home late from hunting, he would not know which
teepee contained which squaw, since it was dark. He went hunting one day, and
killed a hippopotamus, a bear, and a buffalo. He put the a hide from each animal
into a different teepee, so that when he came home late, he could feel inside
the teepee and he would know which squaw was inside.
Well after about a year, all three squaws had children. The squaw on the bear
had a baby boy, the squaw on the buffalo hide had a baby girl. But the squaw on
the hippopotamus had a girl and a boy. So what is the moral of the story?
The squaw on the hippopotamus is equal to the sum of the squaws on the other two hides!


Posted: 08/02/2006 11:32:19
By: Ancient Geek
Excellent reply one of the best yet! I'll copy that for my daughter to use teaching 6/7 yr olds. Barry


Posted: 09/02/2006 08:51:32
By: Barry Watkin
Chuck my bit in here.  Everything in the system needs to run as freely as possible with the least chance of snags or tangles.  The sheave in the mast should be a good quality ball-bearing jobbie, the halyard low-stretch Dyneema or similar, the block at the foot of the mast again ball-bearing with a clean lead in the right direction.  I have a couple of stainless-steel lined bullseyes under the thwart (one either side) to lead it through and would recommend them.  I replaced the cheek block at the stern with another stainless-lined bullseye and have had absolutely no problem with it since.  Blocks here do not have the capacity to lead in 2 different directions when you hoist and drop and seem much more likely to tangle and foul.  I have had the shock-cord and ring system for some while.  The ring is a standard nylon ring of about an inch outside diameter tied to a bit of shock cord that goes up under the foredeck to a turning block a couple of feet up from the mast and back to a knot at the side deck.  Though it doesn't pull the spinny right back under the deck it does very much reduce the chance of it ending up in the jib blocks or under the crew's feet.


Posted: 09/02/2006 16:14:07
By: Andrew M
Right everything sounds as i have already. I'm gonna check that all the blocks in te mast run freely.  Does anyone have any pictures of the ring system?


Posted: 09/02/2006 18:45:50
By: RussHopkins3374

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